Penndemonium
PhD Student
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Reg: 11-29-04
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11-07-18 10:26 AM - Post#264609
This is my new column for the board. Premature Exclamations. It will have a completely random assortment of game observations. Not nearly as thorough as others' report cards and game write-ups.
- #$@&! - Losing Betley is just heartbreaking. He looked so confident and control of his destiny in the first 5 minutes. That long three that he measured up was beautiful. He will be missed.
- EUREKA!! - Mike Wang is a revelation. I never expected him to look so confident flinging up threes and nailing them. He was looking for that three off of sagging defenders, screens, and catch and shoot. He is fully capable of faking the three and taking it to the hoop. This guy will be great in a Donahue offense. If he develops a ferocity in posting up smaller defenders, he will be unstoppable. He is more capable of filling Caleb Wood's role than I imagined.
- Hell Yeah! - The team is still competing so well. Brodeur, Rothschild, and Woods were just dialed in. I think Betley would have been right there with them and our team would have been one of the most mentally put together teams we've ever had. Win or lose, this team will compete for the entire game, as they did last year.
- Whoa. - I never expected so much PT for Hamilton, but I feel vindicated nevertheless. I've been hoping for more PT for him for the last 2 years. He wasn't spectacular, but he belonged. He made a few good cuts to the hoop and had good energy.
- Huh. - Hamilton actually filled the role that most of us expected and hoped Eddie Scott would fill. Defense, rebounding, and not turning the ball over. Scott's three looked smooth, so I'd love to see more from him.
- Nice. - Simmons looks vastly improved in that he is physically stronger and he now puts a body on opponents for rebounding. He still needs another gear to impose himself on the game and to fill and clear more space on the court the way Brodeur and Rothschild do. If he becomes an animal on the boards, he will be harder to keep on the bench. He and Wang together give us more big man depth than I can ever remember us having before.
- WTF? - How does our team make it without being able to shoot FTs? Brodeur leans a bit to his left when he shoots his. Wood looked completely lost on his last two. Then again, they somehow pulled it off last year.
- Whew. - Goodman looked pretty good - he played more like the guy who ended the season 2016-2017. He was in control and his speed brought something to the table even when he wasn't going after his shot. He gets to the hoop so quickly. He hit some open 3's. He turned the ball over more than I'd like, but it's only the first game. Silpe and Donahue are fine backups, but I don't know how Silpe gets a lot more PT without a long range shot.
- Bravo! - Loved Wood's fire at the end of the game. He surprised me on how fast he could get to the hoop and the body control he had in the air. He will be tough to guard if he attacks like that and can shoot from three. He looks ready to pick up the Foreman mantle, especially in the wake of Betley's injury.
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Silver Maple
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 10:36 AM - Post#264611
In response to Penndemonium
- WTF? - How does our team make it without being able to shoot FTs? Brodeur leans a bit to his left when he shoots his. Wood looked completely lost on his last two. Then again, they somehow pulled it off last year.
So here's a question: is great free throw shooting overrated? I mean, I'd love it if our team shot better from the line. But, to this point, it hasn't really hurt them. The CW has always been that FT% is essential to success. Is it possible that it's not as essential as we thought? Does Steve The Great know something about this that we don't? Is it possible that practice time that could be spent on FT shooting is better spent on other things? Or has the team just been getting lucky?
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 10:44 AM - Post#264612
In response to Silver Maple
Even someone on the George Mason board was trying to figure out how they lost to a team that sucks so bad at FTs. We missed every one except for the one we needed to win the game.
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palestra38
Professor
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Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 10:45 AM - Post#264613
In response to Silver Maple
Betley's injury is crushing, indeed. He cannot be replaced---we will have to play a different game. But Woods is what I always thought he was---a superior athlete for our league who gets to the rim probably better than anyone in the league. Also plays great defense. That FT shooting, though!
Losing Wood to graduation and Betley to injury leaves us with only a freshman as a potential outside threat other than Jackson Donahue, who will have to step up his game significantly if he is to contribute to a potential title team.
If there are any other Jets fans getting up there in age, it feels like that Testaverde injury.
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Condor
PhD Student
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 10:46 AM - Post#264614
In response to Silver Maple
Last year we wanted Betley, Wood, or Foreman to have the ball at the end of the game because they could make FT’s. They shot more than 46% of our FT’s last year. In the final game against Harvard last year, they shot 12 of the 16 FT’s we attempted, and they made all but one. Hence, I believe FT’s are important, and we need to decide who is with the ball at the end of the game.
With the loss of Betley, does anyone see someone who will take on that role. Every part of Brodeur’s game makes him an EOG offensive player except his FT shooting. Although we did not see him shoot FT’s, I would have to believe Wang has the potential to be excellent at the line. Beyond that, we have to hope that Brodeur, Woods, Goodman, Bryce and/or someone else figures it out.
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PennFan10
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11-07-18 10:53 AM - Post#264615
In response to Penndemonium
- great observations.
-You were only right on Hamilton because of Betleys injury-vindicated nonetheless.
-I believe Betleys injury threw the 3 big lineup out the window.
-We are a great defensive team with woods, Max,AJ out there. Dev did a good job also. Gotta get a little more offense from Max and more defense from Wang
-we lost Betley early and still shot 44% from 3 on the road. That’s not gonna happen every game so we need to work the ball inside on more possessions.
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pennsive
Junior
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Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 11:06 AM - Post#264617
In response to Penndemonium
Interesting post. For us old timers, Betley's injury reminds me of the crushing feeling we had when John Engles went down with a major knee injury. Now the question is, what do we do going forward? I would like to see more playing time for Kuba and Jarrod to back up Max and AJ; Eddie, Bryce and Hamilton to back up both Wang at the 3 and Antonio at the 2, and Antonio to back up Devon at the point when he is not playing the 2. Ryan's injury is terrible, but it does open up PT to talented, but inconsistent, players who often have looked lost on the court because they may have needed game experience, and not just practice time, to gel with AJ, Max, and Antonio. BTW, Jarrod, especially, and Eddie can stroke it at the line, and we sure can use that.
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PennFan10
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11-07-18 11:27 AM - Post#264623
In response to pennsive
If we are looking for 3 pt shooting from players down the bench I think we may see some tick for Kuba or even Ray Jerome. Outside of that Bryce Washington is a good 3 pt shooter but looked pretty lost out there last night.
Again, shooting 44% from 3 on the road is great, doing so without our 2 best guards, one of whom is an elite 3 pt shooter, is insane.
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SomeGuy
Professor
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 11:56 AM - Post#264624
In response to palestra38
One note on the athleticism and speed seeing this one live — I thought George Mason’s guards were faster than our guys for a good part of the game. Woods was quiet in the first half, and Goodman couldn’t seem to get a step either (and when he did, he seemed to flustered to finish). But it changed as the game wore on. Goodman’s speed seemed to play better in the second half in part because he slowed down more at times. And Woods’ combo of speed and strength was too much when he got back in at the end. I don’t know if that’s stamina or heart (or both), but it seemed like both guys kept plugging away, and at the end they had the advantage (except at the line).
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palestra38
Professor
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 12:01 PM - Post#264625
In response to SomeGuy
I think Woods always has the ability to take it hard to the rim, but has bought into the team concept and has sublimated his offensive game because others have the better ability to hit 3s and FTs. However, the loss of Betley may force Donahue to revisit that strategy. Still, Antonio MUST hit foul shots....I don't know how, but clearly it is possible. His drive may be our best offensive option without the initials AJ
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AsiaSunset
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Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 12:07 PM - Post#264626
In response to PennFan10
Yeah but let's remember it was mostly Mike Wang.
PS I thought the play they ran for him near the end of the game was really well designed and executed. He had the exact look they wanted but unfortunately didn't knock down that one. He had a few other open looks in the 2nd half but didn't take them. I wonder if that had something to do with that 30 footer he attempted in the 1st half after having made his first three.
Watched Ryan's fall on replay this morning. It looked like the leg just buckled. That would be consistent with a patella tendon tear or rupture. I feel so badly for him.
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PennFan10
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 12:20 PM - Post#264627
In response to palestra38
Our best offensive weapon is, and has been for over a year, 12-14 assisted baskets a game to players who take open layups or set shot 3’s. Our system gets players shots and will continue to do so. Hitting those shots is another thing entirely.
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PennFan10
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 12:22 PM - Post#264628
In response to AsiaSunset
Yeah but let's remember it was mostly Mike Wang.
So?
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palestra38
Professor
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 12:27 PM - Post#264629
In response to PennFan10
Things get different at the end of the game. You have to have someone willing to take the tough contested shot, whether it was Zack in his day or Foreman last year. It may be Antonio this year.
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TheLine
Professor
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 12:27 PM - Post#264630
In response to palestra38
Woods has always had a motor - he was the most relentless player on the team last year IMO. He hasn't always been good taking it to the hoop. Foreman was much better at it last year.
Dev wasn't particularly consistent the past two years. He'll need to be now.
FT shooting is going to be a lost cause and will cost games. I don't think there's a magic elixir, it's not that common for poor FT shooters to improve into good ones. Fran Dougherty is the only one I can recall making a leap in the recent past. Wood, Foreman and Betley were the 3 best on the team last year and now all are lost. Woods was the next best I think but that's not a compliment.
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palestra38
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 12:29 PM - Post#264631
In response to TheLine
He always was great getting to the hoop---it was finishing and/or hitting the FTs that often result that was the issue. He may have worked on his game so that his finishes are more effective. The FT shooting --well, he cannot shoot worse than yesterday. But 2 of 3, he should be able to hit.
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AsiaSunset
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 12:39 PM - Post#264632
In response to PennFan10
The team technically shot 44% but for one guy it wasn't a great 3 point exhibition by the team. We will need others to hit that shot or Mike won't get that many good looks going forward.
Ryan's loss obviously magnifies the importance of others knocking down that shot - significantly
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TheLine
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Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 12:52 PM - Post#264633
In response to AsiaSunset
Last year's numbers don't indicate Woods had any special ability to get to the hoop.
Foreman got to the rim more frequently and converted more frequently. 90% of Foreman's FGs at the rim were unassisted while 55% of Woods' were.
This year may be a different story.
Woods was effective at converting 3's - he was 35%. Granted he was a tertiary option for the most part but he did what he was supposed to do.
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PennFan10
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11-07-18 01:05 PM - Post#264635
In response to TheLine
-Dev can’t be a primary ball handler and turn it over 5 times.
-AJ, no matter how valuable, has to reduce his TO’s (6)
Those two had 11 of our 18 TO’s on a team that didn’t turn it over that much last year. Our A/TO rate was best in the league last year. Last night we had 15 assists (very good) and 18 TO’s (pretty bad).
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penn nation
Professor
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 01:10 PM - Post#264636
In response to Penndemonium
So every post-game report is gonna look like an episode of Batman?
Hey, I'm in.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 02:45 PM - Post#264645
In response to TheLine
They don’t, but the end game yesterday looked a lot like the Foreman end game. Often seemed like since Coach Donahue started we play pretty offense with lots of assists for 30-35 minutes, and then for the last 5-10 Foreman was supposed to take it to the hoop. I suspect that’s Woods this year. Certainly was yesterday.
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palestra38
Professor
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 02:49 PM - Post#264646
In response to SomeGuy
Yes, indeed.
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SomeGuy
Professor
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11-07-18 02:51 PM - Post#264648
In response to PennFan10
Hoping the turnovers were game flow based and had a lot to do with Mason. We won the A:TO comparison decisively— our ratio was a lot better than their ratio. It just wasn’t a good ratio objectively. More Woods hopefully helps too. He’s the steadying presence out there in the backcourt.
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palestra38
Professor
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11-07-18 02:54 PM - Post#264650
In response to SomeGuy
You have to think that he won't get double fouls often. But he clearly is the enforcer.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 03:18 PM - Post#264651
In response to penn nation
I did that to make it appear that I really wanted to include exclamations and to conceal any hint of innuendo. I will probably drop them in the next round, as "Boff" and "Pow" are probably a bit too much. Feel free to weigh in - this is a customer friendly editorial.
So every post-game report is gonna look like an episode of Batman?
Hey, I'm in.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
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11-07-18 03:34 PM - Post#264656
In response to Penndemonium
You might find this to be a helpful reference:
https://www.66batmania.com/trivia/bat-fight-word s/
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-07-18 03:38 PM - Post#264657
In response to Silver Maple
You know, I may need to keep it going for a while. That link definitely expands my vocabulary.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-07-18 03:43 PM - Post#264658
In response to Penndemonium
Given what happened to Betley last night, I fear that Yiddish expressions might dominate the post-game exclamations for a while.
Talk about expanding your vocabulary....
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OldBig5
Masters Student
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-07-18 10:55 PM - Post#264746
In response to pennsive
Remember that Eagles injury well. That was a crusher.
Interesting post. For us old timers, Betley's injury reminds me of the crushing feeling we had when John Engles went down with a major knee injury. Now the question is, what do we do going forward? I would like to see more playing time for Kuba and Jarrod to back up Max and AJ; Eddie, Bryce and Hamilton to back up both Wang at the 3 and Antonio at the 2, and Antonio to back up Devon at the point when he is not playing the 2. Ryan's injury is terrible, but it does open up PT to talented, but inconsistent, players who often have looked lost on the court because they may have needed game experience, and not just practice time, to gel with AJ, Max, and Antonio. BTW, Jarrod, especially, and Eddie can stroke it at the line, and we sure can use that.
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Streamers
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-08-18 01:09 PM - Post#264795
In response to OldBig5
I hate being late to threads like this - so many reactions to the posts here, but just a few:
No question this was a statement game for this team that fought through so much adversity to steal one from a good GMU team. It says a lot about not only their character, but the depth and versatility of the roster, as well as SD's ability to use it. This makes me think they will minimize (although certainly not eliminate) the impact of losing Betley.
As one of the Tyler fans on the board, I'm thrilled to see him bring his skills and senior experience to the court again. I seem to recall he
was off the bench even before Betley went down, but I could be wrong about that.
I too, wonder where the 3's will come from now, but I know Wang will get even more PT now. We just have to stop thinking of him as a 'big' in this context. Kuba and Scott seem the most likely choices to provide additional 3's when needed. In Eddie's case, this feels like his big chance to step up. I still don't trust JD, but I would love him to change my mind.
I don't think three is any question Woods will get the ball when we are protecting a lead late, with Silpe being next in line for that role, as we saw a few times last year.
Let there be NO doubt FT shooting will cost us some games this year if it does not improve.
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10Q
Professor
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11-08-18 01:19 PM - Post#264796
In response to Streamers
How can it not improve? There is only one direction after abominable.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-08-18 02:09 PM - Post#264803
In response to Streamers
I can't think of any other Freshmen that have come out gunning from distance in the first game the way Wang did. I feel bad for him that have no other shooters who will command attention from out there - and that teams will no doubt adjust. It's a tall order for a Freshman to have to bear the load of being a focus of the opponent's defensive game plan.
What surprised me about the game is how well both Wood and Goodman slashed to the hoop at the end. I wouldn't have thought of our team as a slashing team, but I'd love to see them continue. That would give our team a different identity than it's had for a while, and slightly offset our loss of 3 point shooting.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-08-18 02:14 PM - Post#264805
In response to 10Q
Yes, only one direction to go on the free throws, and we’re still 1-0. Woods’ comments after the game were encouraging, as was the fact that any loss of poise at the end there was quarantined to the free throw line — there wasn’t any loss of composure on defense, or on the offensive boards, or handling the balll.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
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Re: Premature Exclamations
11-08-18 02:35 PM - Post#264811
In response to Streamers
I too, wonder where the 3's will come from now, but I know Wang will get even more PT now. We just have to stop thinking of him as a 'big' in this context.
What he said.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
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11-08-18 04:29 PM - Post#264845
In response to Penndemonium
Doesn't seem to bother freshmen players on the top national teams that people concentrate on them so why should it bother Michael Wang?
BTW, "Wood" is gone (and happily engaged); Antonio's last name is Woods.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-08-18 06:22 PM - Post#264861
In response to SteveChop
Doesn't seem to bother freshmen players on the top national teams that people concentrate on them so why should it bother Michael Wang?
BTW, "Wood" is gone (and happily engaged); Antonio's last name is Woods.
The people on the top national teams may have more than one shooter on the floor to zero in on. If I were coaching against Penn, I'd make sure someone stayed out on Wang at all times. You'd be happy with anyone else shooting threes, and would be OK if Wang takes it inside for two. It could be disruptive to Wang to be commanding all of the attention up top. If I think back to a lot of our top Freshman guards such as Ibby, Rosen, Jordan, and even Allen, none of them necessarily were needed as badly to shoot as we may need Wang. The closest I could think of was Bernardini.
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PennFan10
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11-08-18 07:43 PM - Post#264871
In response to Penndemonium
Pretty sure teams were trying to guard Betley pretty close behind the arc and that didn't work so well. It all depends on how Wang moves without the ball.
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Charlie Fog
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11-09-18 07:49 AM - Post#264919
In response to Penndemonium
The issue teams will have trying to defend Wang on the perimeter is that they will need to use a big to do that and that should open up the inside for AJ and Max. That is how is see it at least!
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Silver Maple
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11-09-18 08:29 AM - Post#264924
In response to Charlie Fog
My thought exactly. Not only is Wang 6-10, but he seems to have a very quick release. This should probably allow him to be an effective 3 pt shooter even if he's closely guarded.
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Streamers
Professor
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11-09-18 08:53 AM - Post#264928
In response to Silver Maple
Just think of the possibilities once Wang develops a post-up game.
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SomeGuy
Professor
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11-09-18 09:41 AM - Post#264933
In response to Charlie Fog
Not just for AJ and Max — it also opens up Hamilton’s hard cuts to the basket, which got us a few easy buckets in the second half Tuesday.
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weinhauers_ghost
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11-09-18 11:36 AM - Post#264946
In response to Silver Maple
My thought exactly. Not only is Wang 6-10, but he seems to have a very quick release. This should probably allow him to be an effective 3 pt shooter even if he's closely guarded.
From what I saw, it looks like he releases the ball fairly high. That'll be a nightmare for any defender shorter than 6'7" or so to defend. How many defenders are there in the Ivy who are 6'7" or taller and that mobile?
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
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11-09-18 12:48 PM - Post#264956
In response to weinhauers_ghost
I think at least in theory that most athletic 3's can guard a 6'10" perimeter player. If we assume that perimeter player is Mike Wang and he's on the court with Max and AJ he can be guarded by lots of athletic wings even in our league. The key is getting him open looks within the flow of the offense, not necessarily that a 6'5" kid can't guard him. Afterall, we had 6'4" Matt Howard guarding some legit power forwards in the past.
He actually becomes more dangerous when a slower big is guarding him (and we have lots of those in our league) because he has unusually good ball handling and passing skills for a 6'10" Ivy player. He can put the ball on the floor and drive to the hoop better than the typical Ivy big.
I think Steve will try to play a lot of guys tonight which is pretty usual at the beginning of the season. It will be interesting to see how he uses Mike in Ryan's absence. Will he log a lot of minutes as the 3rd big on the court. Not sure, but we'll know more tomorrow.
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weinhauers_ghost
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11-09-18 05:47 PM - Post#264999
In response to AsiaSunset
I think at least in theory that most athletic 3's can guard a 6'10" perimeter player. If we assume that perimeter player is Mike Wang and he's on the court with Max and AJ he can be guarded by lots of athletic wings even in our league. The key is getting him open looks within the flow of the offense, not necessarily that a 6'5" kid can't guard him. Afterall, we had 6'4" Matt Howard guarding some legit power forwards in the past.
He actually becomes more dangerous when a slower big is guarding him (and we have lots of those in our league) because he has unusually good ball handling and passing skills for a 6'10" Ivy player. He can put the ball on the floor and drive to the hoop better than the typical Ivy big.
I think Steve will try to play a lot of guys tonight which is pretty usual at the beginning of the season. It will be interesting to see how he uses Mike in Ryan's absence. Will he log a lot of minutes as the 3rd big on the court. Not sure, but we'll know more tomorrow.
The one thing I think a shorter, quick defender could do effectively against a player like Wang would be to play basic ball denial defense. That leaves one vulnerable to back cuts, though.
I think we need to think of Wang as more of an exceptionally tall wing, rather than as another big.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-09-18 06:19 PM - Post#265002
In response to weinhauers_ghost
I recall one sequence where Wang faded out off of a screen to get a ton of space for a long three. It was clearly a set. That told me that Penn is clearly game planning for his shot and Wang moves well enough off the ball to make it work.
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weinhauers_ghost
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11-09-18 08:51 PM - Post#265019
In response to Penndemonium
I recall one sequence where Wang faded out off of a screen to get a ton of space for a long three. It was clearly a set. That told me that Penn is clearly game planning for his shot and Wang moves well enough off the ball to make it work.
That's exactly the sort of play design and floor spacing that has me thinking of Wang in that way.
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