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Username Post: UMass        (Topic#22104)
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-13-18 08:54 PM - Post#265456    

Nice first half - up 39-31
Lewis and behemoth Rasheed Holloway a battle. Unfortunately Chris picked up 2 quick fouls. Djuricic (10pts) and Welsh and Baker (4 pts each) playing well. Kirkwood showing glimpses of Wes Saunders with controlled drives.

Bassey with 3 quick fouls permitted UMass’ Pipkins to go off for 18 points.

Given recent history of this rivalry, second half should be tough and close.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-13-18 11:51 PM - Post#265498    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Not really sure how Harvard won this game. A lot to overcome:
- no Towns
- no Aiken
- Lewis and Bassey each in early foul trouble limiting them each to 21 minutes
- Kirkwood with 5 TO's
- Corey Johnson shoots 1-6
- Chris Lewis 1 rebound
- UMass' Pipkins scores 36 points

Somehow, everyone contributed, played good enough defense, and only committed 11 TO's

Hope this abbreviated lineup is learning how to win.

Chris Lewis 8-11 from the field, now 24-31 on the season.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-14-18 12:06 AM - Post#265499    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Crimson played well when Chris Lewis was on the bench, which he was for 19 minutes due to foul trouble (4):

UMass: Chris plays 21 minutes
with Chris: Harvard 42 - Umass 45
without: 32-26

Season Totals:
with Chris: +8
without Chris: -8

Other relevant stats:
- Chris had 3 blocks
- Chris shot 8-11, and is shooting 77% (24-31) for the year
- Chris only had 1 rebound for the second time in 3 games

UMass rested it's big center often when Chris was also out. However, Henry did a nice job filling in. Danilo helped by scoring an early 10 points, 13 overall.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
UMass
11-14-18 09:16 AM - Post#265506    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Agree - I was a little surprised as well by the outcome with Lewis and Bassey playing almost 10 mins each off of the mins they'd normally see due to foul trouble. Harvard still hasn't seemed to have shaken this habit of cheap fouls well away from the basket that often get followed by another real foul and all of a sudden the player is in foul trouble quick.

Noah still needs to learn what are his moments and when it's best not to press. He had 5 TOs but most of those were on charges or dribbling into traffic trying to make too much happen. It'll take some time to adjust to the athleticism of this level (he had a fast break layup blocked from behind and seemed a little surprised).

From a "play to win the game" perspective, I was impressed to see Tommy not force Spencer Freedman in there in a game where the athleticism of UMass was bothering him. It was also nice to see Bob and Henry not be minuses on the floor while Chris was out.

Often if you can't single out why a team won, it's because it was a good, team effort. Important to have the team playing well, because there's only one Tier 4 game on the schedule between now and exams. Wins are going to have to come this way for the next few weeks.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
11-14-18 09:51 AM - Post#265513    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
Not really sure how Harvard won this game. A lot to overcome:
- no Towns
- no Aiken




How long is this a thing? Aiken hasn't played in a game in almost a year, Towns not since last season. This years team doesn't even know what playing with those guys really means. You need to drop this crutch.

Much bigger problem will be learning how to incorporate 2 high volume scorers into a team in mid-season that has (hopefully) learned to play together.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
UMass
11-14-18 11:07 AM - Post#265537    
    In response to PennFan10

You're right, maybe assimilating them when they return before Conference play isn't worth the trouble. I'll defer to the Coach on that one.

There's a difference here between Penn and Harvard. With the respect absolutely due, the injury to Betley is really unfortunate and Penn is learning how to play without him. Harvard did that with Siyani a few years back. My understanding, repeated by the announcers last night, is that Seth and Bryce will be back this year.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 11-14-18 11:08 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: UMass
11-14-18 11:19 AM - Post#265540    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Don't think the Siyani situation is anything like Betley because Siyani controlled the ball and Betley did not. Penn's offense really doesn't change---it just has lost a very effective weapon.


The issue is whether you believe what they tell you after the true nature of the injuries has been concealed. We'll see. If they are healthy, I wouldn't worry about working them back in. They both are very good players.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
11-14-18 02:23 PM - Post#265576    
    In response to palestra38

They aren't healthy, that's obvious. Healthy players play. Teams in this league aren't good enough to hold players out til the conference season as a precaution unless they can't play.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: UMass
11-14-18 07:29 PM - Post#265622    
    In response to palestra38

I’m inclined to agree on the Betley part. For as good a coach as Donahue is, I’m not sure losing anyone but Brodeur will move the needle much. I mean, if you lose enough people, it becomes a problem of numbers, but for what Penn is trying to do, Brodeur is really the only “individual” they can’t lose.

As for Harvard, I agree with P38 that Bryce and Seth won’t have much trouble getting back into the offense. Aiken went for 18 pts in 20 mins when he was able to play against Brown after a long absence. Seth will just slide in to Djuricic’s spot. I don’t think there will need to be a lot of ramp up for either - maybe a few games of reduced mins.

I somewhat disagree that “healthy” players play no matter what because health is a continuum, not a binary. We hear all the time players say “I’m at 80%” or “I’m a little nicked up.” If your point is that if they were 100%, never injured in their life, that they would be playing - of course that’s true. Otherwise, the value of the game has to be balanced with the “closeness” to full health and risk of further damage.

And I know we joke about it on here, but Tommy values non-conf games at zero. If anything, he probably prefers to have the opportunity to throw folks into the fire even if it’s suboptimal for Ws and Ls. So I don’t think we’ll see either until well after they would have been ready enough to play in a meaningful game.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
UMass
11-15-18 09:53 PM - Post#265782    
    In response to mrjames

If Towns and Aiken got nicked up a few games back and are being held out to get fully healthy, then your scenario is plausible. If they are not now 100% after a year (Aiken) and 9 months (Towns) then their injuries were much more serious than ever reported. Either one or both had surgery which is one of the only things that have 10 month plus recovery times, or they are going full Makai Mason and their non surgical rehab has not gotten them to 100%, which would be a big concern if I am a Harvard fan.

Either way, to be off of basketball for almost a year and not be 100% is not good. And there isn’t a credible coach out there who would hold their best players out, knowing they are 100%, to save them for the conference games.

All this amounts to what many of us on the outside are saying, which is something isn’t right about this.

Edited by PennFan10 on 11-15-18 09:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Chip Bayers 
Professor
Posts: 6997
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
11-17-18 09:16 AM - Post#266113    
    In response to PennFan10

UMass loses at home to Howard, which if the ratings hold would be Howard’s best Kenpom win since beating #111 Oregon in ‘09.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-17-18 12:16 PM - Post#266119    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Guess it takes a while to know who is who and what our wins and losses really mean. Harvard visits Howard on Jan 21st.

Very competitive game vs URI last night. Pleased to see the grit and determination of Harvard. Lost on last second 3 by URI guard who was 4-17 shooting at that point and 1-8 on three's.

Really pleased with the leadership of Bassey and Djuricic. Scored 43 points between them on 14-19 shooting (6-7 on three's), 7rbs, 9 assists but only 2 TO's (1 each). URI was very active and aggressive, putting Chris Lewis in foul trouble (21 minutes). Henry Welsh did a nice job and in a new wrinkle was sometimes teamed with Djuricic leading to better offense.

Appears that the vulnerability of this squad as constituted is that very quick guards disrupt us. Although Rio Haskett is quick, Juzang, Freedman and Kirkwood are less so. URI had 11 steals and attacked our ball handler aggressively.

It also always seems that an opponent has a hot night. URI's Downtin scored 31 on 13-19 shooting. Compares to Roland (NE) and Pipkin (UMass). Is there a matchup issue?

Anyway, nice game on the road, enjoyable even if outcome left something to be desired.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-17-18 01:20 PM - Post#266123    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

UMass shot 6-for-28 from 3 and 13-for-23 from the stripe. Ugly loss, for sure, but if they shoot normal percentages from both, they win with a bit of cushion.

Tough night for Lewis last night, who I'm surprised to see even played 21 mins. Certainly didn't feel like that much watching the game. That Harvard turned the ball over on 29% of possessions and somehow had the lead at the end was pretty remarkable.

More impressed to this point with Harvard sans Aiken and Towns than I thought I would be. At the same time, I'm more impressed with Penn and Yale than I thought I'd be as well.

Withholding judgment on Princeton until they're full strength and don't shoot 4-for-32 from three.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-17-18 05:20 PM - Post#266132    
    In response to mrjames

Last season, the difference between having Chris Lewis on the court or not was extreme. That's why I've been tracking on this. Thus far, the improved play of Henry Welsh, the use of Danilo to bridge the situation, and increased depth (even with injuries), has improved that discrepancy, at least in the most recent games.

vs URI

UMass: Chris plays 21 minutes
with Chris: Harvard 40 - URI 47
without: 34-29

Season Totals:
with Chris: +1
without Chris: -3

Other relevant stats:
- Chris was in foul trouble (4) throughout
- played 21 minutes
- 10 points on 4-7, and is shooting 73.6% (28-38) for the year
- only 4 rebounds and 1 block
- 5 TO's

URI did have large (6'8" 225), strong and athletic center to oppose Chris.

 
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