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Username Post: Congrats to Princeton Football        (Topic#22142)
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 19986

Reg: 11-21-04
11-18-18 10:43 AM - Post#266228    

..on having one of the most dominant Ivy football teams in recent memory. Too bad you don't get to go for a title nationally---I think there would be a good chance to get it.

Time to end the boycott of the FCS playoffs.....while Harvard and Yale frolic at Fenway before a sellout crowd and national TV, the rest of the league is an afterthought.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 852

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: Congrats to Princeton Football
11-18-18 11:52 AM - Post#266232    
    In response to palestra38

Not a very good team but a great team - dominated all games other than against Dartmouth when weather conditions were pretty crazy.

Coach Surace came out swinging after the game that his team does not get to make hay in the Playoffs. He mentioned Cornell President who objected to Ivies participating in playoffs as they would get badly beaten by Alabama.

WR and baseball player Horsted is projected as 4th round draft and QB Lovett may play in the NFL at a different position. Horsted is also projected to be a high draft pick in MLB draft. Frosh QB White was heavily recruited by Nick Saban but decided on Princeton. Surace is recruiting top level HS players and the future is bright. Maybe Mitch should invite Horsed as a late walk on to add quickness and speed - he can probably play as he was Minnesota HS player of the year like Mauer and Dave Winfield.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 8577

Reg: 12-07-04
11-20-18 11:31 PM - Post#266700    
    In response to bradley

If something like this can't get the ridiculousness flipped, nothing will. Your coach has some power now. Please save ivy football.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2285

Reg: 11-23-04
11-24-18 09:40 AM - Post#266853    
    In response to Quakers03

An important difference between the football factories and the Ivies is that the coaches run the former and the educators the latter. I’ll stick with that. Great season without as many as FIVE additional games spread over a month with travel all over the US for a trophy with little meaning. Our 100+ guys have nothing to prove and better ways to spend their time. Where does football end?

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 19986

Reg: 11-21-04
11-24-18 09:54 AM - Post#266854    
    In response to Tiger69

You think the Princeton football players agree with you? You'd be wrong. From the QB:

"We're all frustrated by it," Lovett said. "I don't understand why we're not able to play in the FCS playoffs. We've certainly beaten teams who have had good playoff runs over my five years here. As far as that's concerned, it's a question that can't be answered. I believe in my team. We believe in each other and that's what has gotten us to this point. We wouldn't be worried about facing anyone."

And "I know that we would fight our butt off to do it," senior linebacker Tom Johnson said. "That's all I can say about that."

This was the best Ivy football team in a generation. They might have won the title, just as every other athletic team has the chance to do. If you oppose lengthening the season, then you should support a drop to Division 3----wait, they go to playoffs too. You're a dinosaur. The original Ivy agreement didn't envision 2018. Time to stop using it as a basis for how our sports teams should act. BTW, here's the Trentonian article from which I copied those quotes:

https://www.trentonian.com/sports/kyle-franko-pr in...

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3366

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
11-24-18 10:40 AM - Post#266859    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Tiger69 Said:
An important difference between the football factories and the Ivies is that the coaches run the former and the educators the latter. I’ll stick with that. Great season without as many as FIVE additional games spread over a month with travel all over the US for a trophy with little meaning. Our 100+ guys have nothing to prove and better ways to spend their time. Where does football end?



I hear what you're saying, but (in addition to P38's points above) there are some things you must bear in mind:

- EVERY other Ivy sport is permitted to participate in post season play.

- The only reason football is the exception to this is that the people at Harvard and Yale believe that America gives a sh1t about their precious little 'The Game,' and (like the petulant children they are) they insist that it be the final game of the Ivy season.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5317

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-24-18 11:12 AM - Post#266861    
    In response to Silver Maple

What I’ve never understood is why the league couldn’t follow the path of the MEAC and SWAC and not have an outright ban on the playoffs, but instead accept only at-large bids or have the auto-bid but have Harvard and Yale known as not accepting the bid if they are the champion and send the 2nd-best team instead.

These are all arrangements that could be made to satisfy everyone involved here. That’s gotta be the most frustrating part here - it’d be one thing if there was unanimous opposition to the playoffs or that you need the support to be unanimous based on selection rules. But with the flexibility the FCS playoffs have shown, there’s no reason the Ivies couldn’t thread a solution here that worked for all if they wanted to.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 19986

Reg: 11-21-04
11-24-18 11:31 AM - Post#266862    
    In response to mrjames

What makes you think that if the Ivies accepted the FCS playoff invitation that Harvard and Yale would not want to go if they were the champions? Like the Princeton players, I guarantee the players would want to play.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5317

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-24-18 12:51 PM - Post#266863    
    In response to palestra38

I'd imagine everyone wants to go - players want to play.

But if there are administrative hurdles where only a few administrations are blocking a decision, my point is that the FCS will allow a league to structure playoff participation such that some teams are not permitted to go, but others are. There's flexibility there (and a desire to include Ivies) such that a deal could be struck here to meet everyone's needs.

 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
Congrats to Princeton Football
11-24-18 03:14 PM - Post#266875    
    In response to Tiger69

Tiger:
I respect (or at least try to) respect all points of view, but I must offer a special thanks to you for your clear and impassioned defense of the traditionalist posture. Frankly, it's more than obnoxious and a bit insincere for a visitor to formulate a thread, ostensibly and in the guise of praising Princeton; and to almost immediately disparage a Princeton family member, calling him a dinosaur. I, too, am a proud dinosaur! I don't even believe that freshmen should, to this day, be eligible to participate in varsity sports- I'm pleased to state that the Ivies were the very last league in the nation to move from that, But kids love dinosaurs; many adults love them , too; and because they're so effective in capturing our attentions, dinosaurs are excellent teachers of the natural sciences.
And Tiger, you certainly don't need somebody pontificating to you about what you should and must be mindful of, because you understand how and why football is unique; in that each event takes up a full week of a school semester. Of course, the kids want to keep playing- that's why they're kids in the first place; but we need to get over ourselves and our insufferable need to be entertained, and just concede that there are some reasons, respectful of academic standards, that more than adequately why the Ivies end football when they do-- football's nothing like baskets, where you can fly out to Wichita on a Wednesday evening; lose to Kansas on a Thursday; an be back on your campus on Friday, ready and able to spend the weekend catching up for mid terms exams. No- each football playoff game eats up another 8% of the fall term; simply requiring, in my opinion, too much of a student-athlete's time.
Don't know that The Game, Harvard v. Yale football, really factors in here; but one would have to be self absorbed to the nth degree or dumber than a tree stump not to know that Harvard v. Yale DOES matter to a whole universe of people; AND AS a defining element of the league's character, something that should resonate with boosters of any of the eight member schools. I don't think Harvard-Yale fans are petulant- in using a word with such a negative and downright nasty connotation, the writer may well see himself- a person who was probably rejected by Harvard or Yale half a century ago, though having not yet lived it down; to make matters worse, his once cherished business degree is now the not so prized possession of Donald Trump and one-half the members of his family! Under such unfortunate circumstances, petulance is ALL this feeble simpleton has left; so he rails and tosses stones at all things Harvard/Yalish he may encounter or may imagine he's encountering- he's never gotten out from under the Harvard-Yale shadow and probably never will.


Edited by AntiUngvar on 11-24-18 03:25 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 19986

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Congrats to Princeton Football
11-24-18 04:20 PM - Post#266888    
    In response to AntiUngvar

Man, you manage to suck the air out of every thread you invade.

 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
11-24-18 04:43 PM - Post#266893    
    In response to palestra38

No; just try to be consistent. Dish it out (which you're expert in), but learn to take it, too.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 19986

Reg: 11-21-04
11-24-18 05:04 PM - Post#266895    
    In response to AntiUngvar

I am completely consistent--you want a league that disappeared 50 years ago, which incidentally was the last time Columbia won a basketball or football title.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2285

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Congrats to Princeton Football
11-24-18 07:58 PM - Post#266922    
    In response to AntiUngvar

Thank you, AU. You expressed many of my feelings better than I could have. As I asked on the Voy boards, how much football is too much football?

Also many of the commenters above imply that all players want to play in the playoffs. How can we know if there are players who do not wish to engage in this drawn out playoff process? Teams are tight and I would assume that those who might not wish to extend the season would keep it to themselves. I can no more claim that they exist than others can prove they do not. All we know is the public policy of the League. Still, some very talented players have chosen Ivies over others. Perhaps a few of them are perfectly satisfied with the current Ivy position.

 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
11-24-18 09:04 PM - Post#266929    
    In response to Tiger69

Thank you, sir; but while there are a few remaining air molecules in this subject that I can inhale, may I add the fact that what else makes football different is it's a fall sport; so a kid at Princeton's committed, as it stands now, to what's basically a full time job from the end of July till Thanksgiving. Playing a winter or spring sport allows some time to get one's academic ducks in order prior to the sporting commitment. For too many of out Ivy brethren, kids like John Lovett are at Princeton to entertain them, pure and simple! Call me all the names you like; call me an invader
(ironically, a term that our dear President and Wharton grad has popularized of late), even when in actuality you're the one invading the Princeton page heaping insults at a Princeton alum- whatever you do or say, I'll never see the need for the ancient 8 to allow freshmen to compete at the varsity NCAA level- when there are so many other priorities in the life of an eighteen year old that need to be addressed. Just a week ago, freshman Columbia engineering student, Mike Roussos, created quite a stir, when as a kick returner for the football team, he ran back two kicks for 90 years scoring forays- the final one, in the last minute of the game, sealing Columbia's win over Cornell. While this provided a real feel good moment for the fan base of a school that hasn't' had its fair share of these moments, I've been wondering how good is it for this Roussos kid to begin a tough engineering curriculum while serving an important and laborious role for the foot ball team- staring down the Cornell special team defense keying on him may be tough; but going up against the Asian juggernaut that defines Columbia's School of Engineering and Applied Sciences presents a higher order challenge for Roussos during the next month; let's hope he's up to it.


 
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