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Username Post: Three problems in need of solutions        (Topic#22153)
Stuart Suss 
PhD Student
Posts: 1024

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
11-19-18 11:44 PM - Post#266565    

Two "yardstick" games against high major opponents:

AJ Brodeur: 3-20 shooting.
Antonio Woods: 5-16 shooting, 1-9 foul shooting
Devon Goodman: 31 points, but 0 assists and 11 turnovers

The floor is open for your solutions.

 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4921
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
11-20-18 12:19 AM - Post#266567    
    In response to Stuart Suss

Steve clearly sees the problem, since he started Silpe twice this weekend in hope that his stellar ball protection skills (a TO in only 7% of his possessions) might steady things up. Tonight he went back to Washington as a starter, whose TO rate is as horrid as Dev’s in the early going, I assume looking for some 3-point production, and it backfired.


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4712

Reg: 11-22-04
11-20-18 12:24 AM - Post#266568    
    In response to Chip Bayers

I assume Defense has something to do with it as well. Washington is longer and moves his feet very well.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3831

Reg: 11-22-04
11-20-18 06:32 AM - Post#266572    
    In response to SomeGuy

*whispers* to unlock AJ's offense, play smaller around him

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 20015

Reg: 11-21-04
11-20-18 06:40 AM - Post#266573    
    In response to Jeff2sf

It's the effect of the loss of Betley. We're trying to adjust but don't have anyone to hit that key shot coming around a pick like he could do. Our ball movement remains good, and we have some guys who can shoot from outside, but it's not enough of a threat to clear out the middle. Plus, against the better teams, we're getting killed inside as it is. Right now, we're just not quite as good as these teams.

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 15556

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
11-20-18 06:42 AM - Post#266574    
    In response to palestra38

We're not even close to these teams. Good thing we have Steve to fix it.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 20015

Reg: 11-21-04
11-20-18 06:50 AM - Post#266578    
    In response to 10Q

I think we would be close had Betley not been injured. We have other weapons against less athletic teams but no one else who can open up a big time Division 1 defense like Betley.

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 15556

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
11-20-18 07:00 AM - Post#266582    
    In response to palestra38

Agreed. It's going to test Steve's ability as a coach to adapt to the situation. I'm a little depressed by our inability to really compete. But I have faith that we can turn it around quickly.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4712

Reg: 11-22-04
11-20-18 07:11 AM - Post#266586    
    In response to palestra38

Curious if George Mason would have adjusted, but it was probably meaningful that they likely knew exactly who they needed to stop, and yet for those first five minutes all the shots were by AJ and Betley. Once Betley got hurt, AJ went away for a while in the first half. We seemingly made some adjustments at halftime. But yes, Betley makes a big difference in our offense.

I suspect Oregon State would easily win our league — I think they are considerably better than Harvard right now (or at least they were last night).

 
SteveChop 
Masters Student
Posts: 723

Reg: 07-28-07
11-20-18 07:41 AM - Post#266590    
    In response to SomeGuy

Foul shooting continues to be a big problem. Someone would have to check this but I don’t think we made the front half of a 1 and 1 against either K. State or Ore. State. When Penn plays better teams like that, those points are critical.

While Michael Wong has shown some excellent offense especially inside, I would note that 2 of his 3s against George Mason came before Betley was injured, i.e. when there was another 3 point threat on the floor. We really need another 3 point threat - Washington has shown a good ability to hit 3s. Perhaps he can be that player.

I still am optimistic that these guys can rally and, with Steve’s coaching, become really good. Facing a top 20 and a PAC-12 team can only make them better. Saturday’s game against Stockton State and next week’s game against Delaware State should provide ample opportunity to start.

Please warm up Philadelphia- it’s been easy to get used to 80 degrees every day.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 20015

Reg: 11-21-04
11-20-18 07:44 AM - Post#266591    
    In response to SteveChop

It's 50 today and tomorrow.

It'll be 32 Thursday.

Happy Thanksgiving.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 4001

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
11-20-18 08:07 AM - Post#266594    
    In response to SteveChop

This roster may not be able to match up well against teams that are vastly more athletic and physical than we are.

AJ's play is highly dependent on whether he is athletically superior to the player he's up against. Jeff's point is a good one - since AJ is going to struggle when the D collapses around him, the counter move is to kick the ball out for open 3's. Spacing and shooting need to be better.

I didn't see the game but if Woods isn't getting open looks he isn't going to score. He struggles at creating his own shots. This is where we miss Betley - he was the best on the team at creating outside shots.

Goodman was an up and down player in prior years. I was encouraged with his play in the first four games but he was exposed the last two.

Let's see what happens against teams not as physical as K St and Ore St.


 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1992

Reg: 02-15-15
11-20-18 08:16 AM - Post#266597    
    In response to TheLine

Not sure what you guys were watching but AJ was not double teamed against KStste or Ore State. Smaller lineups wouldn’t have mattered. He got dominated by those two bigs one on one. UNI doubled him. Those two teams were better an no scheme or personnel was going to change that. We couldn’t make open 3s and AJ was a no show.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 20015

Reg: 11-21-04
11-20-18 09:14 AM - Post#266607    
    In response to PennFan10

Who said he was double teamed? It's that we didn't have a credible enough outset threat to bring their defense out and free space for AJ offensively. And getting nothing from Max doesn't help, although it's not a surprise that Max really has trouble against teams at this level.

On the bright side, only St. Joe's the rest of the way really presents any kind of similar challenge.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1992

Reg: 02-15-15
11-20-18 09:50 AM - Post#266617    
    In response to palestra38

The defense didn’t collapse in fact the ilopposote happened. They defended the 3 pt line in both games against HM. We moved the. All and still could t hit shots. We drove and they stayed in front of us. AJ had plenty of room and couldn’t beat their bigs one on one. That’s what I saw.

 
pennsive 
Sophomore
Posts: 127

Reg: 11-21-04
11-20-18 09:54 AM - Post#266619    
    In response to palestra38

Unless we have a Betley clone, which we don't so far, but JD is sure trying, we either double down on what we can do well and accept that we will get rolled by the big-time teams and possibly by Harvard and Yale with their talent and size this year, or we use more of our athletic players, like Scott, Simmons, Wong, Goodman, Washington etc., live with their weaknesses until they learn to play the way Steve needs then to play, and, as I posted before, add the occasional two point shot from near the foul line to help them gain confidence in their shooting (perhaps then not making shooting fouls such an adventure since they will be shooting other shots from that distance), or, as Dunphy and Steve have done, stay with their system and rely on the players who can play within that system until they ultimately prevail (even if we have to wait a year). While I would like to see the former, the smart money probably is on the latter.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3831

Reg: 11-22-04
11-20-18 10:51 AM - Post#266623    
    In response to PennFan10

you may have seen that, but everything's super subtle with spacing. You take Max out and put another shooter on and suddenly everything opens up by a foot or two.

This was almost certainly not going to work anyway as the entirety of the NBA and NCAA has moved away from two bigs because SPACING.

But without Betley, it makes it that much harder. Keep bombing 3's, get Max away from blocking driving lanes and hope for the best. Make or Miss League.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4712

Reg: 11-22-04
11-20-18 10:51 AM - Post#266624    
    In response to SteveChop

Steve— that isn’t correct about Wang/Betley. Wang didn’t hit a shot until after Betley left. Wang hit at 13:37 in the first half, and Betley got hurt at 15:02.

I don’t think they were even on the court together. As I mentioned in the prior post, it was all AJ/Betley before the injury. They took our first six shots.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4712

Reg: 11-22-04
11-20-18 11:00 AM - Post#266626    
    In response to Jeff2sf

While last year I thought Max gummed up the works some on offense, this year it seems like the opposite. He’s not a credible shooting threat from out there, but he is passing extremely well this year. Yesterday I thought the game got away from us in part because we got away from Max (in hopes of getting more scoring from Wang — a worthy goal). Max kind of stirs the drink on offense despite not scoring much himself.

I kind of liked what the flosports announcers said about him — that he is the kind of kid where you could play 5 pickup games against him, and you look back and realize he didn’t score and yet you lost all 5 games to him.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3831

Reg: 11-22-04
11-20-18 11:12 AM - Post#266627    
    In response to SomeGuy

yeah cool except we lost the last two games. I just despise this sort of tautology "well we can't measure what he did but he's out there ergo he musta done something".

I may be allowing my opinions from this tweet to color all thinking. https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/10 648862574...

dude went 1 for 3 and was plus 6. spark. snort. Always seems to be ascribed to white fellows too. Wonder why that is.

 
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