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Username Post: West Coast Trip        (Topic#22155)
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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11-20-18 11:42 AM - Post#266622    

Harvard plays at San Francisco Wednesday night and at St. Mary's Saturday evening. Looks like these games can be viewed on THEW.TV, the WCC's official site. Appears to be free, but not sure.

#80 KP SF is 4-0, but due in part to very easy schedule (#333 SOS). SF head coach is former Columbia coach Kyle Smith who has also scheduled Dartmouth for this Friday.

Saint Marys is 3-1, with KP#61 but a #207 SOS. Loss was to KP #94 Utah St., a squad ranked similarly to #97 Harvard. For what it's worth, Harvard's SOS is the Ivy League's toughest at #80 and the schedule gets tougher. KP has Yale (#93 SOS) and Princeton (#78 SOS) as other Ivies having played comparably difficult schedules.



Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 11-20-18 11:50 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: West Coast Trip
11-20-18 12:25 PM - Post#266630    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

That's because K-State and Oregon State are not on Penn's official schedule. With them, Miami and the Big 5, Penn's schedule matches anyone's

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3578

Reg: 02-15-15
Re: West Coast Trip
11-20-18 12:38 PM - Post#266634    
    In response to palestra38

Yep. Bingo

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-20-18 12:41 PM - Post#266635    
    In response to palestra38

That's not how it works. KP includes those games and has Penn with 5th ranked Ivy SOS at #162, behind HYP and Dartmouth (SOS #134).

Penn absolutely played a very highly rated K-State squad (KP #14) and a reasonably strong Oregon St team (#75), and they are included in the KP SOS. Penn's other 4 opponents (Penn's victories) have dragged down Penn's SOS:
George Mason #155
Rice #276
Lafayette #308
Northern Iowa #148



 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-20-18 12:51 PM - Post#266638    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Objectively, Harvard's schedule is tougher than Penn's though they're both projected to be Top 100 schedules, so kudos to both for challenging themselves.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
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Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-20-18 12:58 PM - Post#266641    
    In response to mrjames

Absolutely. League is doing well in that regard.

All I was doing was noting SOS to date, which is what KP reports. Seems the trick is to not schedule Division 1 patsies. Assume that was the RPI goal as well in prior years for the very reason that those games offset (for KP and RPI purposes) legitimate attempts to schedule up.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
West Coast Trip
11-20-18 01:07 PM - Post#266643    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

That cannot be the case. Here are Penn's out of conference opponents this year: George Mason, Rice, Lafayette, Northern Iowa, Kansas State, Oregon State, Stockton, Del. State, Miami (Fla), LaSalle, Villanova, New Mexico, Toledo, Monmouth,Temple,St Josephs


Here are Harvard's: MIT, Northeastern, U Mass, URI, SF, St. Mary's, Holy Cross, Siena, Vermont, GW, Mercer, North Carolina, MCGill,

Penn's schedule is objectively much tougher. Perhaps because it plays Del State and Lafayette, there is skewing, but there is no question that Penn plays more tough teams than Harvard, which plays only one Power Conference game and Penn plays 10 games with teams in higher rated conferences than the Ivies. Can you seriously look at that comparison and say Harvard has a tougher out of conference schedule?

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
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Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-20-18 01:38 PM - Post#266652    
    In response to palestra38

Not what I wrote. I described the CURRENT KenPom SOS rankings.

I do agree with you that Penn's schedule is a big upgrade over last year. Recent tournament provides with a big bump. Without tournament Penn's current SOS would be around 250th. Ivy rules meant Harvard could not play in such a tournament this year, but will participate in Advocare Invitational in Orlando next year.

Again, let's hope that all Ivy be healthy and that Betley recovers well. Will make these two years very competitive.



 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
11-20-18 02:09 PM - Post#266655    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Well, if they can coax an extra year out of Betley, that should be very interesting with the recruiting class Donahue has coming in.

But one year at a time. And with Betley's injury, Harvard has the advantage (assuming their guys come back, which Betley will not)

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: West Coast Trip
11-20-18 02:58 PM - Post#266663    
    In response to palestra38

Expected elite loss rate for Harvard's schedule: 21% (59th)
For Penn's: 19% (98th)

Very close, but Harvard's is objectively tougher.



 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: West Coast Trip
11-20-18 03:55 PM - Post#266667    
    In response to mrjames

OK, it doesn't look that way to me, however. I'll give you that I don't know too much about the West Coast schools Harvard is playing, but I don't put all that much stock in Mass and URI and GW (especially this year).

 
mrjames 
Professor
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: West Coast Trip
11-20-18 04:31 PM - Post#266669    
    In response to palestra38

I think a lot of it is wrapped up in home/road. Harvard has 3 Tier I road games at present (USF, St. Mary’s, UNC). Penn’s toughest road game is at Temple. The home dates against Miami and Villanova end up being barely tougher than Temple on the road. So, all you’re left with is N-Kansas St.

It pencils out but could obviously change as the season moves forward (say if USF and St. Mary’s fall off the Tier I line) that’s why the expected loss percentages are so close. Both schedules are strong for what our league usually does.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: West Coast Trip
11-20-18 04:43 PM - Post#266671    
    In response to mrjames

I suppose---I just don't remember a season we play this many top 100 teams.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-21-18 11:50 PM - Post#266766    
    In response to palestra38

Rough first half at San Francisco. Down 32-21. Sloppy, outrebounded, no offense except for Lewis down low and Danilo's 3's.

Kyle Smith has a nice team in San Francisco.

 
digamma 
Masters Student
Posts: 466

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
11-22-18 12:57 AM - Post#266769    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Appreciate the fight in this team, but it's a frustrating watch right now.

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3399

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
11-22-18 12:58 AM - Post#266770    
    In response to digamma

Dons won
west coast fan


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-22-18 01:01 AM - Post#266771    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Defense kept Harvard in what was an otherwise ugly game. Too many TO's and little offense until Lewis, Djuricic and Kirkwood powered inside for high percentage shots, eventually putting Harvard in the lead. Not enough to beat a good SF team though as SF wins by 5 (61-57). Impressed that this squad battled back with no offense from Juzang and only a few late buckets from Bassey. Freedman played final minutes at PG.

Again, nice effort, but not what we'll need to win this league.

For what it's worth, announcers stated that Towns will be back "shortly" and that Aiken will be back "in a few games."

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-22-18 02:40 AM - Post#266774    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

oh, and 4-21 from 3

 
digamma 
Masters Student
Posts: 466

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
11-22-18 09:09 AM - Post#266779    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

There was a little traffic on Twitter about a call late in the game (59-57 Dons, Harvard had the ball with no shot clock).

Freedman missed a floater to tie from the right side and the ball was tapped out. Bassey grabbed possession right over the half court stripe. The referee blew the whistle and signaled a backcourt violation.

This didn't seem to make sense because you can't be called for a backcourt violation on a rebound.

As best I can tell one of two things happened for the backcourt violation to happen.

1. Freedman's shot was an air ball. I don't *think* this was the case, but I didn't go back and watch the replay of the shot.

2. The ref ruled that Bassey established possession in the front court and then stepped into the backcourt, creating the backcourt violation. I think this is the more likely of the two calls, and if so, man what a bang bang play and tough call in the last ten seconds of a game.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
West Coast Trip
11-22-18 09:46 AM - Post#266783    
    In response to digamma

Chris Lewis Watch vs SF

Chris played 26 minutes and stayed out of foul trouble. SF had a 7'0" center and Chris game out active and aggressive, but missed 3 of first 4 shots. Chris quickly got that center in foul trouble and went on to make 6 of next 8, so 7-12 overall for 16 pts.

with Chris: Harvard 40 - SF 36
without: 17-25

Season Totals:
with Chris: +5
without Chris: -11

Harvard was outplayed at the guard position. Harvard starting guards (Juzang, Bassey and Haskett) scored a grand total of 2 points in the first half, and only 9 for the game. Christian Juzang has been 'out-quicked' the last few games, Rio Haskett is playing limited minutes, and the freshmen Kirkwood and Freedman are seeing more playing time, but making freshmen mistakes.

Must give credit to the coaches. It appeared that coach Smith took advantage of Harvard's guards early with breakouts and penetration. SF overplayed the guards knowing their 7'0" center and large forward(s) would help on Harvard's penetration. For the game, this pressure contributed to Harvard's guards shooting 2-16 on 3's. This is where Bryce and Seth are sorely missed. Corey is invisible.

Coach Amaker made key adjustments that almost won Harvard the game. In the second half, Harvard penetrated more and with opposing center in foul trouble Djuricic, Kirkwood and Lewis got aggressive near the basket. Harvard took the lead but couldn't close it out.

Very interesting coaching matchup. Kyle Smith knew what Harvard likes to do and also recognized the Crimson's weaknesses. Amaker adjusted and Harvard almost won a game on the road despite playing poorly. If Juzang and Bassey don't contribute on offense, this abbreviated squad likely doesn't have the scoring weapons to win games like this. 19% shooting from 3 won't cut it.


Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 11-22-18 09:49 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: West Coast Trip
11-22-18 10:03 AM - Post#266785    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I’m at the 14min mark of 2H. How does Harvard end up having a shot to tie?

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-22-18 10:34 AM - Post#266786    
    In response to mrjames

Exactly. Enjoy the next 13 minutes.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-22-18 11:11 AM - Post#266789    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

The backcourt call was pretty bad, but getting USF to go 1-of-4 from the stripe in the final min was a gift we didn't deserve anyway.

Harvard's offense left a lot to be desired both in terms of how much was forced (passes and drives - SO much dribbling) and shot selection. But USF is a Top 50 defense, so it wasn't going to be easy.

Really admire the fight on a night when these guys didn't have it going and certainly USF being cold as well helped a ton. Any time you don't play your best and have a shot in a Tier I game, you can't be too upset. Things don't get any easier with St. Mary's next!

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-22-18 12:04 PM - Post#266790    
    In response to mrjames

It will be interesting to see how Dartmouth fares at this same San Francisco team Saturday afternoon.

Meanwhile, it's onwards and upwards as Harvard visits #58 Saint Mary's.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
West Coast Trip
11-22-18 04:15 PM - Post#266795    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Message to the Team: California trips have not been kind, going back to last second call robbing your predecessors of a win at Saint Mary's on New Year's eve, 2012.

Also, don't forget how unkind last Thanksgiving in Fullerton, CA was. Whatever you do, please don't eat whatever it was that you did in California this time last year!

Your season is just getting started. There is still a lot to accomplish in 2018-19. May this stretch pay dividends come March.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 11-22-18 04:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3399

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
11-22-18 08:40 PM - Post#266804    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

http://www.sfexaminer.com/usf-dons-mens-basketb all...
west coast fan


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-24-18 07:37 PM - Post#266913    
    In response to internetter

SF beats Dartmouth 84-65 with Dartmouth narrowing the gap in the closing minutes.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
West Coast Trip
11-24-18 10:05 PM - Post#266930    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Chris Lewis in street clothes for Saint Marys. No Chris, no Bryce, no Seth. This may not be pretty.

Hope Chris' situation is not serious.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 11-24-18 10:06 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-24-18 10:54 PM - Post#266932    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Harvard 34, Saint Marys 24
Halftime

Henry Welsh leading scorer with 9 points. Amazing.

?!?!

 
whitakk 
Masters Student
Posts: 523

Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
11-24-18 11:37 PM - Post#266935    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

"@dtannenwald: Am told that Chris's injury is "just a little knock" and is nothing major, but he will be out tonight."

Harvard has no business winning this game with three first-team All-Ivy players in street clothes, but still going to be disappointing if SMC completes this comeback

 
H78 
PhD Student
Posts: 1458
H78
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 01-06-11
11-25-18 12:06 AM - Post#266939    
    In response to whitakk

Robert Baker, with the DAGGER. And the Crimson, with top 3 players out, plays great D, shuts down St. Mary’s top scorer, Ford, who was only 2-10 from the field...

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-25-18 12:08 AM - Post#266940    
    In response to H78

Bizarre.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
West Coast Trip
11-25-18 12:16 AM - Post#266942    
    In response to mrjames

Bassey was amazing on D against Ford. Watched that matchup closely and Justin kept his feet moving and stayed in front of Ford all game. When it came to contact, the strength of Bassey cut Ford off from penetrating.

Really fun to watch bench players contribute and Henry Welsh get aggressive on offense for 15 points.

Not sure if Saint Mary's is any good, but by beating current KP#58 on the road Harvard must have the best league win - by far.



Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 11-25-18 12:26 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-25-18 12:28 AM - Post#266944    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

TO TEAM: Payback for 2012!

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3614
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
11-25-18 03:02 AM - Post#266946    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Impressive win with the guys available, particularly without Lewis since that was a new thing. Certainly best league win to date, but hope there are a few more scalps like this across the league the rest of the way.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-25-18 09:08 AM - Post#266958    
    In response to Mike Porter

Rewatching now. Has a weird last-year-vs-St. Joe’s vibe when Reed Farley contributed meaningful minutes and seemed to grab every offensive board and Robert Baker was a huge offensive weapon.

That was about as bad as St. Mary’s can play for long stretches, but that kinda balances out getting smacked with the best Northeastern could play offensively. Supremely impressive to come away +2 over 80 mins on a trip with two Tier I games.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
11-25-18 09:32 AM - Post#266959    
    In response to Mike Porter

Very impressive win against a #53 ranked team on the road without the big three. Unlike any win in the IL y-t-d as the other wins were against teams ranked #137,147 and 157. Kirkwood is a player although Freedman looks like a freshmen.

Let's hope that the IL can get on a roll and beat some credible opponents for a change of pace.

Harvard has a lot of talent and depth -- will be a challenge for all other IL teams especially if they get back at least Towns or Aikens.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-25-18 09:54 AM - Post#266962    
    In response to bradley

Location matters. While the St. Mary’s win is indeed in a different category for now, the road wins over UMass and George Mason also have the potential to be Top 100 (Tier II) wins because they happened on the road.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
West Coast Trip
11-25-18 10:02 AM - Post#266963    
    In response to bradley

I double down on SOS to date as evaluated by KP, with the exception that once you remove the D3 games Dartmouth has played a killer schedule (all on the road):

Dartmouth #21
Harvard #31
Yale #61
Penn #161
Cornell #208
Princeton #233
Columbia #312
Brown #345

Dartmouth's SOS ranking will definitely drop looking forward.

Harvard's will likely drop as well:
Holy Cross (#157)
at Siena (#258)
at Vermont (#117)
at George Washington (#216)
at Mercer (#177)
at North Carolina (#4)
McGill
at Howard (#301)

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 11-25-18 10:10 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
digamma 
Masters Student
Posts: 466

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
11-25-18 02:21 PM - Post#266983    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Mason Forbes was more than adequate coming off the bench as well. And yes, Bassey's defense was really great.

 
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