palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 09:31 AM - Post#266850
Quakers vs the Ospreys
Ospreys--2-1. Beat York College 72-67,lost to Farmingdale State 73-58, beat The College of NJ 87-70 (OT).
They play in the NJ Athletic Conference. They were 15-10 (9-9 Conference) last year. Their best player is Kashaun Barnes, a senior, who averaged 18 points and 5 rebounds per game last year.
Interestingly, their website lists this as an Exhibition Game.
https://stocktonathletics .com/schedule.aspx?path=m...
Here was their announcement of this game:
https://stocktonathletics .com/news/2018/8/22/mens-...
Roster: https://stocktonathletics .com/roster.aspx?path=mbb...
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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11-24-18 11:53 AM - Post#266860
In response to palestra38
Is Abners in play? We barely missed it vs PSU-Brandywine.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 02:48 PM - Post#266867
In response to Quakers03
About 500 people here at the Palestra, at least half are from Stockton. Again, no band-no cheerleaders. Needless to say, no students
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 03:01 PM - Post#266869
In response to palestra38
Washington starting for Penn
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 03:18 PM - Post#266870
In response to palestra38
22-14 Penn, 8 minutes in
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 03:29 PM - Post#266871
In response to palestra38
34-22 with 7:30 to go 1st half
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 03:40 PM - Post#266872
In response to palestra38
48-31 with 3:30 to go. Stockton is consistently outworking us, though
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 04:11 PM - Post#266874
In response to palestra38
If anyone is watching, I am informed that the ESPN+ video feed has failed. Only game action is audio at xpn.org.
Women eke out a 65-61 win at Navy.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 04:25 PM - Post#266876
In response to Stuart Suss
94-50 with 7:53 to go in deep garbage time
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 04:34 PM - Post#266879
In response to palestra38
102-62 and there are free burritos at Wahoo's
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Penn7277
PhD Student
Posts: 1365
Loc: Lancaster, PA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 04:35 PM - Post#266880
In response to palestra38
Video is back. Is there something wrong with Tyler Hamilton?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 04:42 PM - Post#266882
In response to palestra38
Final. 112-63
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2144
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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11-24-18 04:50 PM - Post#266884
In response to Penn7277
Video is back. Is there something wrong with Tyler Hamilton?
Announcers said he sustained a fractured foot in practice yesterday. They are saying he will be out 6-8 weeks. Could be an opportunity for Eddie Scott to step up.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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11-24-18 04:56 PM - Post#266885
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Abners not honoring cheesesteaks as they have a huge free cheesesteaks sign up is some look.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21306
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-24-18 06:42 PM - Post#266902
In response to Quakers03
What was the point of playing this game?
I get it if you want to "warm up" after a long layoff.
But we just finished playing three games in a short span of time against decent to very good teams. And that's not even factoring in the travel mishegas.
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Penn7277
PhD Student
Posts: 1365
Loc: Lancaster, PA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 06:44 PM - Post#266903
In response to penn nation
Supposedly, according to Vince, you are allowed an extra game because of playing in the Paradise Jam. This was the game that was arranged.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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11-24-18 06:45 PM - Post#266904
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Judging by the time he saw today, I don't see it happening. Did his shot look this ugly last year? He must not be showing it on the defensive end in practice. Losing depth like that isn't great.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 06:47 PM - Post#266905
In response to penn nation
I seem to recall from last year when they played in Ft. Myers that they had to take a non-DI game as part of the tournament deal. Was that also true this year?
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21306
Reg: 12-02-04
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Stockton
11-24-18 06:57 PM - Post#266908
In response to Chip Bayers
Does it actually count as a true game?
According to the Penn MBB site, it is listed as a game and the 5-2 W-L record incorporates today's win; according to Stockton's site, however, it's an exhibition.
About the game's result, the Stockton write up notes
that it "does not count towards either team's record."
So that would seem to be the first item that needs to be cleared up.
Edited by penn nation on 11-24-18 06:59 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Stockton
11-24-18 07:23 PM - Post#266911
In response to penn nation
It does count in Penn's record. It does not go to the KenPom/RPI rating as it is not a Division 1 game. And yes, this was part of the Paradise Jam, believe it or not.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21306
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Stockton
11-24-18 07:30 PM - Post#266912
In response to palestra38
It counts in Penn's record but not Stockton's?
Of course, had Stockton done the impossible it would have counted in Penn's RPI (or whatever they're using this year)....and I'm guessing Stockton would have begged to count it as an official game on their end.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-24-18 08:19 PM - Post#266917
In response to penn nation
Kind of a fun game to watch but pretty pointless and hate wasting a game on D3 opponent. It seems like some of the other schools were able to schedule a school from the tournament for a game so I tend to doubt it was a requirement to be D3.
Feel bad for Hamilton and that’s a real shame (and hurts depth), but it is prob good in the long run for the team for Scott to get mins (he still has 2.5 years). He had a few rough spots but overall I was actually encouraged by his play once he settled down. He rebounded well, and made some surprisingly nice passes. Shot still needs some work and hard to say on defense.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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Stockton
11-24-18 08:56 PM - Post#266921
In response to Mike Porter
wrong.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-24-18 11:57 PM - Post#266938
In response to Mike Porter
Technically Scott can seek a 5th year (was just under the cutoff last year for seeking an injury redshirt). So he could have 3.5 years left.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-25-18 12:42 AM - Post#266945
In response to SomeGuy
Ah I didn’t realize he made it under the game requirements, so makes sense.
P38 - I stated several things based on watching the game with 75% focus, so I’m sure I could be wrong, but going to need more clarity than your very profound and thoughtful response.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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Stockton
11-25-18 07:25 AM - Post#266950
In response to Mike Porter
Sorry, I meant to reply to myself---I thought Stockton was Div 2, not Div 3, but I was wrong.
No issue with your comment. I think it has something to do with our inability to offer a cash game to anyone. Remember, as part of the tournament, this did not count as an extra game for us but it did for anyone else. So a big time team just offers a lesser team a cash guarantee. We just found a Div 3 team that could play it as an "exhibition." Stockton played hard, though, especially that Hassan Duncombe lookalike--No. 44. He was a crowd favorite and actually gave our bigs some trouble on putbacks.
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mbaprof
Senior
Posts: 346
Age: 67
Reg: 12-24-11
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Re: Stockton
11-25-18 07:47 AM - Post#266953
In response to palestra38
I guess we could have set up a real game although options are limited, from NCAA rulebook..
If a team elects to play in an exempt event, it can play 27 non-exempt contests and up to four games—28, 29, 30, and possibly 31—as part of an exempt tournament.
If a team declines exempt event participation, its schedule is limited to 29 games.
Paths To 30 or 31
A wise man who created a sadly-departed college basketball website once said to not focus too much on the championship aspect of early season tournament. Instead, we should view them as the scheduling tools they truly are.
Indeed, over the past 10 years, we have seen exempt events evolve. It's true that vacation destinations continue to dominate the scene, so much so that events like the Maui Invitational, Paradise Jam, and others are what immediately enter the majority of minds upon the first mention of an "exempt tournament." However, round-robins, including ones often not labeled as exempt events on team websites, have grown in importance as teams attempt to get the full scheduling benefit of four games.
So, how do the different early season tournament formats get teams four games?
Traditional Eight-Team Brackets
When you think about the format of an early season tournament, the eight-team bracket of the Maui Jim Maui Invitational is probably the first thing that comes to mind. However, these events have a built-in challenge for organizers, as it's not easy to set up a fourth game out of a three-round elimination tourney. So, they've had to get creative.
Mainland Games
The Maui Jim Maui Invitational and Battle 4 Atlantis have set up separate "mainland" brackets. Before the eight marquee teams head to the three-game main event, they each play their fourth game—a home contest against one of four mid-majors. Each member of this quartet, therefore, plays a pair of road games before playing games three and four in the two-round mainland bracket.
There's one exception to this format. Since the Maui Invitational includes Division II Chaminade, one Maui on the Mainland participant, usually the Mainland bracket host, only plays one power conference road game and three in total. I'll discuss this quirk in a bit more detail when I preview the Battle 4 Atlantis and Maui Jim Maui Invitational.
Non-Division I Games
The Great Alaska Shootout and BD Global's Gulf Coast and (forthcoming) Lone Star Showcases allow participants to schedule a fourth game against a non-Division I opponent as part of their participation in their respective event.
Non-Bracketed Games
If the regular season schedule of a team participating in an exempt tournament consists of only 30 games, it's more than likely that they are only playing three games as part of the event. That's because the Paradise Jam and ESPN Events-managed tournaments (like the Gildan Charleston Classic and Advocare Invitational) encourage or require teams to schedule their fourth games against other teams in the bracket.
Even though organizers typically place teams playing in non-bracketed games on opposite sides of the bracket, rematches can and do happen. Just last season, the Oklahoma State Cowboys defeated the Long Beach State 49ers twice in a six-day span, once in the Charleston Classic's third-place game and then in a non-bracketed game in Stillwater. With sloppy bracketing, the odds in favor of a rapid rematch increase—like 2015's Toledo Rockets and Loyola-Chicago Ramblers Great Alaska Shootout semifinal six days after their non-bracketed game at Gentile Arena.
As a result, coaches can be leery of take advantage of this type of fourth game. However, this format is a creative way to set up a home-and-home series (as the Xavier Musketeers and Northern Iowa Panthers did this season) or even a three-game set (like the one the Ole Miss Rebels and Bradley Braves started in 2015).
Updated 08/09/2016: It turns out teams can even schedule and count a fourth game against Division I opposition not involved in a specific event as part of its participation. This season, the Florida Gators' game in Tampa against the Belmont Bruins counts as exempt. Last season, the Michigan State Spartans' home contest against the Eastern Michigan Eagles was considered part of the Directv Wooden Legacy, even though the MAC squad didn't participate in the main bracket in Southern California. More curiously, the Eagles played 13 non-conference games with their other three "Wooden" games coming against non-Division I foes.
Pool/Final Format
The easiest way to get four games for each participant in an eight-team bracket would be to separate the participants into a pair of four-team pools. After playing a three-game round-robin, the teams could be paired off for a fourth game based on the pool standings, with the two first place teams meeting for the championship, and so forth. But considering this would require an extra day or two of competition, the costs for organizers, teams, and fans make this approach impractical.
Split-Bracket Events
This format provides the easiest path to four games and a simultaneous opportunity for participants to experience an early taste of tournament play. The 2K Classic Benefitting Wounded Warrior Project moved to this eight-team format to guarantee each participants four games, though upsets in the tournament's former 16-team bracket, most notably the Gardner-Webb Bulldogs' 2007 win over the Kentucky Wildcats, contributed to the switch. More recently, the NIT Season Tip-Off gave up on having a 16-team field in 2014 after several years of struggling to build one.
In this format, the eight participants are split into two brackets—a top flight usually filled with power conference/marquee teams and lower one filled with mid-majors. Typically, an upper bracket team welcomes a pair of lower bracket ones either before or after the main event, though rarely, a top-flight team will play a road game, as the Tulsa Golden Hurricane did against their crosstown rivals, the Oral Roberts Golden Eagles, in the 2014 MGM Grand Main Event.
At the tournament site, the participants will usually play a pair of bracketed tournaments. Usually, only the top flight's semifinals and finals receive television coverage, though streaming has allowed organizers to give the lower brackets more exposure. Occasionally, previous scheduling commitments will force tournament officials to scrap the bracket in favor of a showcase format, as was the case of the 2013 Las Vegas Invitational, which featured the Missouri Tigers and UCLA Bruins, who were already set to wrap up a home-and-home series later in the season.
The primary complaint about this format is the fact a power-conference team can lose one or both of its home games, like the Georgetown Hoyas in last season's 2K Classic (Remember the Radford Highlanders?), and still advance to the championship bracket. On the flip side, if you think of these events as scheduling tools, the criticism loses a bit of its punch.
Round-Robin Events
This is the segment of the exempt event world that's experienced the most growth since 2006, in part because these types of events are the easiest to organize. In fact, teams will often fail to advertise that they're taking part in one when publishing their schedules, particularly if there are five participants.
If you suspect a team is participating in some sort of phantom event, count the number of games. If a team is playing 30 or 31 (without including exhibitions and the conference tournament), there's an MTE in there somewhere.
Four-Team Round Robins
The favored exempt event of mid-majors who find it difficult to schedule quality opposition, these events typically feature a quartet of teams playing a trio of doubleheaders over three or four days at a single site. Usually, the venue is on campus, but there are exceptions, like this season's new Sanford Pentagon Showcase, scheduled for that arena in Sioux Falls, S.D.
Much like the eight-team bracket, it's difficult to get four games out of a four-team event. To get an extra contest, teams are usually permitted to schedule a non-Division I game. More rarely, participants might play an additional game against each other as part of a longer scheduling arrangement.
Five-Team Round Robins
While this format makes a single-site event impractical (since it would take five days for each team to play four games), it ensures each participant four Division I games. Typically, a power conference team anchors the event, getting four home contests, while the other participants get one or two. Occasionally, a five-team round robin might surround a home-and-home series scheduled between two of the teams. For example, the Florida Gators and Ohio State Buckeyes met in a pair of Global Sports-sponsored events in 2010 and 2011, with the showcase games taking place in Gainesville and Columbus, respectively.
Neutral site games also occasionally feature in the five-team round-robin format. Up until this season, the Gazelle Group's Gotham Classic featured a showcase game at Madison Square Garden (the Pittsburgh Panthers defeated the Davidson Wildcats in 2015's edition). The second edition of the Brooklyn Hoops Holiday Invitational will go further with not only a showcase game at the Barclays Center between the Syracuse Orange and South Carolina Gamecocks, but also a three-team round-robin among the other participants, hosted by the Holy Cross Crusaders.
Timing
Division I Manual bylaw 17.3.5.1.1(b) requires that all of an event's games take place in a 14-day span. As usual, there are exceptions. This season, the Creighton Bluejays will host the Oral Roberts Golden Eagles in a non-bracketed game for the Paradise Jam on December 17th, long after the event's final on November 21st. For comparison's sake, the Ole Miss Rebels welcome the Montana Grizzlies to Oxford for the pair's fourth game in the event on November 24th.
Location, Location, Location
NCAA members located in Alaska, Hawai'i, and Puerto Rico receive an additional scheduling benefit thanks to Manual bylaw 17.3.5.1.1.1. Since the Hawai'i Rainbow Warriors are the one Division I member in these locales, they receive the most benefit, as they can participate in up to three multi-team events per season. The Bows host two—November's round-robin Rainbow Classic and December's Hawaiian Airlines Diamond Head Classic, which confusinglyreplaced the old eight-team Rainbow Classic. This arrangement serves as an incentive for teams from the continental U.S. to make the trip to the middle of the Pacific.
If UH's athletic department desires, they can count these six games against their 31-game cap and schedule a third event on the mainland, as in 2014, when the Rainbow Warriors traveled to Florida for the Gulf Coast Showcase. More frequently, however, they'll count one of the two tournaments as their exempt participation for the year, and schedule a pair of extra home games for revenue purposes.
Exempt events currently take place in the continental U.S., Alaska, Hawai'i, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Mexico, and the Bahamas. Contests in Canada are also permitted under Bylaw 17.3.5.1.1(a). BD Global will be the first promoter to take advantage of this allowance, as the Vancouver Showcase is slated to launch in 2017. The Cayman Islands are also likely to be added to the list in the next edition of the Division I Manual, as Global Sports has set a field for the first Cayman Islands Classic, also scheduled for November 2017.
Participation Restrictions
Bylaw 17.3.5.1.1(c) spells out limitations on team participation in multi-team events. A tournament should only include one member of a particular conference, though the last round of realignment complicated matters. Most notably, both the 2013 and 2014 editions of the Battle 4 Atlantis featured a pair of Big East participants, with the Georgetown Hoyas and Butler Bulldogs meeting in the third-place game of the latter. In 2017, 16 teams are scheduled to gather in Portland, Ore. for a 16-team mega event honoring Nike founder Phil Knight. That event will be split into two eight-team brackets to separate members from leagues that are supplying two teams.
Individual teams are only allowed to participate in an event once every four years, unless they're a host school from Alaska, Hawai'i, or Puerto Rico. Take the Gildan Charleston Classic for example. Even though it takes place on the home floor of the College of Charleston Cougars, they cannot participate on an annual basis. In 2016, they'll make their third appearance in the event's nine editions, following the inaugural tournament in 2008 and a return in 2012.
Occasionally, a team from the continental U.S. will play in two MTEs in a season, but it can only count one towards its 31-game total. In 2014, the Arkansas-Pine Bluff Golden Lions played in both the Rainbow Classic and Las Vegas Invitational, and ended up playing 32 games. Oops.
Bracketed tournaments are also sponsored by an NCAA member institution or conference (Bylaw 17.3.5.1.1(a). The institution, which can be a non-Division I school like Maui Jim Maui Invitational host Chaminade, always participates. The conference, however, doesn't need to enter a team. Most sponsoring conferences, like the Metro Atlantic (Hall of Fame Tip-Off and Advocare Invitational) take advantage of the rule to involve a team each year. Others, like the Northeast (Legends Classic and 2K Classic) only do so occasionally.
I'll be referencing these rules and the exceptions to them throughout this year's preview series, which will include an abbreviated look at the round-robin MTEs for the first time.
Be sure to follow @ChrisDobbertean on Twitter and to like Blogging the Bracket on Facebook and Google Plus.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Stockton
11-25-18 12:13 PM - Post#266972
In response to palestra38
Ah got it and makes sense on D3. Thanks for clarifying and no worries - if I was completely wrong in my comment I just wanted to know why haha.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Stockton
11-25-18 12:27 PM - Post#266975
In response to mbaprof
My head hurts after reading this.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1156
Reg: 07-28-07
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11-25-18 01:32 PM - Post#266978
In response to palestra38
And, of course, as a result of initiating the Ivy League Tournament, the Ivies limit a team to 26 non-exempt games, with the exempt game(s) counting as no. 27.
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