Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-05-18 11:07 AM - Post#268105
In response to TheLine
Just checked the advanced numbers for the game on basketball reference, which confirmed Stu's halftime comment. This game was won on the offensive end. Penn's ORat for the game was 136.9, Miami's was 115.4. Sykes was the only significant player who had a sub-100 ORat. Penn's bench was phenomenal.
this will sound more confrontational than intended - do we need ORat to tell us the obvious? We shot 56% from 3. That's clearly not sustainable and basically accounts for the difference in us winning (plus Miami shooting 30%).
But that's okay, we don't have to play this well to beat almost any team in the Ivies. I'm shocked at how well we're playing without Ryan.
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AntiUngvar
Masters Student
Posts: 530
Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
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12-05-18 11:24 AM - Post#268106
In response to Jeff2sf
Jeff:
There's nothing but sound commentary in what you write. There was another gentleman (Quaker3?) who pointed out that Miami was playing last night, a sixth game in thirteen days- surely those Miami kids were tired coming in to Philly, having lost 3 straight games by tiny margins to SetonHall, Rutgers and Yale. No, I don't believe you were witnessing nearly the best Miami had to offer last night. Nevertheless, Penn earned it; and won the game going away which should stand them in good stead going into Princeton just a month from today!
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-05-18 11:25 AM - Post#268107
In response to AntiUngvar
That was me.
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AntiUngvar
Masters Student
Posts: 530
Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
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12-05-18 11:29 AM - Post#268108
In response to 10Q
Yes, sorry about the misattribution. Actually made a small sum of money, largely on the basis of your lead.
Thank you.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Miami
12-05-18 12:01 PM - Post#268112
In response to 10Q
That was me.
Mitigating that 6 in 13 days stretch is that most of those were frontloaded; they got back from the Fullerton, CA tourney on Sunday the 25th and spent what, 8 days in their own beds, playing only twice, on Wednesday and then Saturday, before they flew for last night’s game? Without having to change time zones? Easier than an Ivy Road weekend on the bus for hours, with a Princeton game on the following Tuesday!
Edited by Chip Bayers on 12-05-18 12:02 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8220
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-05-18 12:36 PM - Post#268114
In response to Chip Bayers
Clearly, both teams were weary in those last few minutes given the short benches and the pace of the game. Oddly though, our guys looked even more gassed than theirs to our group. This was evidenced by the silly fouls, missed bunnies, and botched rebounds during that horror stretch when the lead nearly evaporated. Fouls played a big role when Izundu left early trying to guard AJ and Devon was forced to rest (leaving Woods on Lykes) before coming in to make those huge buckets to seal the game.
Given the FT shooting, there was some discussion around the benefits of the bonus for Penn.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8220
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-05-18 12:41 PM - Post#268116
In response to Streamers
I have to wonder what Jay Wright must be thinking as he watches the video from that shooting exhibition Penn put on in the 1st half.
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-05-18 12:47 PM - Post#268117
In response to Streamers
Thanks to "The Line" for the important reminder about defense.
Excluding deliberate fouls and the final few garbage possessions at the end, Penn's defense surrendered 1.25 points per possession. 30 1st half defensive possessions surrendered 36 points and the first 30 second half possessions surrendered 39 points.
The offense scored 1.41 points per possession.
Penn does not have to give back the win. All the praise about offensive performances is deserved (although one day I would like to see A.J. take a shot with his left hand).
But, to borrow a term used by Jeff, a 1.41 points per possession offense outscoring a 1.25 points per possession defense is not a "sustainable" way to win basketball games.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Miami
12-05-18 01:45 PM - Post#268121
In response to Stuart Suss
Yes, my comment was a confirmation of the numbers you provided at halftime that showed we were winning due to incredibly good shooting. Defense was not so good, though could have been worse - Sykes was contained for most of the game except that 5 minute stretch when Miami made it close.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-05-18 02:30 PM - Post#268128
In response to TheLine
I wonder if the short bench was a response to what happened against the high major opponents in V.I. when the deeper bench guys were in.
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Okoro Dude
Senior
Posts: 309
Loc: Glen Mills, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
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12-05-18 02:31 PM - Post#268129
In response to Stuart Suss
Agreed, but the good news is that the story over 8 D-1 games is different - it shows that we are still essentially in the top 100 in adjusted defensive efficiency (ended in the 70s last season) and doing it in a similar fashion (not allowing many 3-pt attempts, solid on defensive boards, not fouling, opponents with low assist rates, etc.).
Everyone needs a hot-shooting night every now and again to win a game they wouldn't normally win (1985 Villanova). That's okay - in fact, it's good to see that we have the ability to have that night from time-to-time. What it shows me is that we have chance to pair the top 100 D with an improved offense/shooting team vs. the team that ended last season out of the top 200 in adjusted offensive efficiency.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12530
Reg: 12-07-04
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12-05-18 03:15 PM - Post#268135
In response to Streamers
If Penn had lost this thing, we would be wailing about the officiating, which was inexplicable at time in key spots and, believe me, there was real fear in our hearts when the lead was cut to 4 and the collapse we all feared all night was unfolding before our eyes.
It was the same guy every time too. Why does that always happen? I think his name was Dwayne and he was brutal. He totally changed the game himself during that run.
I hope we see more teams play zone against us.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-05-18 04:00 PM - Post#268138
In response to Stuart Suss
One thing I like is that we seem to be finding different ways to win. It’s interesting that we got into something of a shootout with a team that plays a short bench, and we played a short bench ourselves. Almost like we just said, if that’s the way you want to play, we’ll play it your way and still win.
Can’t say enough about this group. Great to see Silpe’s play in this one — 5:0 assists to turnovers. Love the way Wang’s offensive game plays against more athletic teams. He may have an easier time with Yale and Harvard than he will with Columbia and Dartmouth.
Only negative thing I can say is that we’ve probably made La Salle into a dangerous trap game.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-05-18 04:08 PM - Post#268139
In response to SomeGuy
I guarantee that Donahue will not allow the team to overlook any Big 5 game, especially one at LaSalle
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-05-18 04:14 PM - Post#268140
In response to palestra38
We will win.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8220
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-05-18 04:37 PM - Post#268141
In response to Quakers03
I hope we see more teams play zone against us.
This is the first time in a while I might agree, especially without Betley; but this is what Washington (the only one without his long-range game last night) and Wang bring us. Add to that Goodman's outside shooting improvement and Silpe hitting them when he is open. The outstanding ball movement makes it all possible.
I actually think we have a real shot at beating Nova, but I'm not counting on it unless the FT shooting improves a lot. We will miss Tyler in that game. Let's hope they are not looking ahead on Saturday.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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12-05-18 04:40 PM - Post#268142
In response to Streamers
Goodman has really stepped it up from his one dimensional play in his freshman year. It's actually remarkable to see the number of Penn guards over the past couple of seasons who have shown marked improvement over time.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Miami
12-05-18 04:55 PM - Post#268143
In response to penn nation
Foreman
Wood
Woods
Silpe
Goodman
Yes, wonderful track record.
No one improved in the years between Rosen leaving and Donahue taking over as coach. Hicks maybe slightly but that's it.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3770
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-05-18 05:50 PM - Post#268144
In response to TheLine
I don't think Hicks improved at all. And the shame of it is that he really could have. By all accounts he was a very hard worker with a great attitude. A competent coach would have helped him grow as a player.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-05-18 05:56 PM - Post#268145
In response to Silver Maple
I want to see Simmons improve.
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