Untitled Document
American Army Bucknell Colgate Holy Cross Lafayette Lehigh Navy



 Page 3 of 3 ALL« First<123
Username Post: LaSalle Game        (Topic#22222)
Bison54 
PhD Student
Posts: 1431
Bison54
Reg: 11-18-09
12-06-18 01:08 PM - Post#268211    
    In response to crd012

  • crd012 Said:

As for the team, I've come away kind of unimpressed. Outside of Sestina I don't think anyone has performed consistently enough to say I know they'll be good. Even though Kimball is averaging like 17 points, he doesn't seem to be shooting that well. Moore hasn't been good, Avi and Sotos still are very inconsistent. La Salle isn't good. They might have been missing key pieces, but I can't see them being an impressive team.

I don't know it's nice being 4-3...but we should be 5-2.Unless there is some improvement and more consistency I'm going to have a problem seeing this team win the PL.



Disagree on Avi..last two games he has done fairly well and has changed his approach to drive and attack more......he had to adjust this year to a role where he may be the 2nd option..instead of last year when at best is was the fourth. Kimball has had some tough shooting nights and some good ones. He'll be OK, too. And Sotos seems to be focusing more on looking for steals, which we need now that Steve B has graduated.



 
Bison137 
Professor
Posts: 13569
Bison137
Reg: 01-23-06
12-06-18 01:46 PM - Post#268212    
    In response to Bison54

  • Bison54 Said:
  • crd012 Said:

As for the team, I've come away kind of unimpressed. Outside of Sestina I don't think anyone has performed consistently enough to say I know they'll be good. Even though Kimball is averaging like 17 points, he doesn't seem to be shooting that well. Moore hasn't been good, Avi and Sotos still are very inconsistent. La Salle isn't good. They might have been missing key pieces, but I can't see them being an impressive team.

I don't know it's nice being 4-3...but we should be 5-2.Unless there is some improvement and more consistency I'm going to have a problem seeing this team win the PL.



Disagree on Avi..last two games he has done fairly well and has changed his approach to drive and attack more......he had to adjust this year to a role where he may be the 2nd option..instead of last year when at best is was the fourth. Kimball has had some tough shooting nights and some good ones. He'll be OK, too. And Sotos seems to be focusing more on looking for steals, which we need now that Steve B has graduated.






I agree that Avi has had to adjust to a very different role, but I think in the last two games he has done much better than only fairly well. He scored 17 points in each of those games, hitting 4-7 on twos and 7-13 on threes - an effective FG pct of 72.5%. Also 8 rebounds, 7 assists, and 7 steals for the two games combined. In the previous game vs Northeastern, he missed most of the first half with serious foul trouble but he scored 9 points in the second half. Hopefully he can sustain that level of play, as he makes the Bison offense very dangerous when he is looking for shots. Also his defense continues to be very good.




 
Bison89 
Postdoc
Posts: 4615
Bison89
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
12-06-18 02:15 PM - Post#268213    
    In response to crd012

crd, I think that we have to all keep in mind that this is a group of players that really has not had a ton of playing time other than Mackenzie. They need time to learn and grow with each other. I agree that the PL will not be a cakewalk, but there is hope.
'RAY FOR THE ORANGE AND THE BLUE!


 
crd012 
Sophomore
Posts: 154

Age: 30
Reg: 12-02-12
12-06-18 02:28 PM - Post#268214    
    In response to Bison89

To me the thing with Avi is the inconsistency in his shot. Which obviously shows up in his free throw shooting which is abysmal. Unlike kimbal, his shot mechanics seem to be different with every shot. And the timing of his jump and release seem to differ. I would love to see him be able to carry the team offensively, but his inconsistency is maddening. Also he has virtually no arc on his shot, so it's either directly in or not. You can see Kimbal gets rolls, he does not.

Additionally if you want him to be the defensive ace, it is tough to rely on him to be the number one on the offensive end. Obviously this team has potential as I'm sure we have just as much talent as any other team in the PL but so far this year we've seen the team be terrible in first halves pretty consistently. I just hope that they don't think that previous success means they should roll.

 
res 
Masters Student
Posts: 687

Reg: 03-21-06
LaSalle Game
12-06-18 02:57 PM - Post#268216    
    In response to crd012

Whoever recently posted that we have become spoiled is absolutely correct. Frankly, given the enormous losses to graduation, the fact that we can argue that the Bison have a reasonable chance at winning the PL title and a reasonable chance at winning the PL tournament is quite remarkable. It argues for the current health of the program, regardless of how things might turn out.

The fact that there have been growing pains in the process shoudn't surprise anyone and shouldn't lead to the level of criticism sometimes directed at specific individuals. Give them a chance and enjoy the ride.

EDIT: Mine is a general response and not directed at crd.


Edited by res on 12-06-18 02:59 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bison137 
Professor
Posts: 13569
Bison137
Reg: 01-23-06
12-06-18 03:53 PM - Post#268218    
    In response to crd012

  • crd012 Said:
To me the thing with Avi is the inconsistency in his shot. Which obviously shows up in his free throw shooting which is abysmal. Unlike kimbal, his shot mechanics seem to be different with every shot. And the timing of his jump and release seem to differ. I would love to see him be able to carry the team offensively, but his inconsistency is maddening. Also he has virtually no arc on his shot, so it's either directly in or not. You can see Kimbal gets rolls, he does not.

Additionally if you want him to be the defensive ace, it is tough to rely on him to be the number one on the offensive end. Obviously this team has potential as I'm sure we have just as much talent as any other team in the PL but so far this year we've seen the team be terrible in first halves pretty consistently. I just hope that they don't think that previous success means they should roll.





There is no question that Avi does not have a lot of arc on the shot - which makes it harder to be consistent. However if you look back at his HS stats, when he was the main guy offensively and likely had a lot of confidence in his shot, he was a very good shooter from anywhere on the court. Over four years, he hit 59% on twos, 46% on threes, and 73% from the line. Even better, as a senior he hit 77% on twos (129-167), 50% on threes (55-110), and 73% from the line (166-228). I don't expect him to hit those sort of percentages, but I think he can definitely hit over 40% on threes. For his Bison career, he is at 37.3% now - which is more than acceptable - but he should do better as he gets to shoot more. As for FT's, a lot of the issue is likely mental. He proved in HS he is capable of hitting close to 75% from the line over a large number of attempts. Hopefully that will happen at some point, but who knows.

Agree that it's tough to be THE defensive guy and also the main offensive guy, although it's not impossible. However in this case, I think he is just being asked to be one of the main guys at each end. On offense he is not going to be more than the third option this year. And at the other end, there are several good defenders - although he may well be the best.

HS stats: http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/avi-toomer/RS iqNvT...


One other thing about Avi is that we shouldn't forget that he had a very serious injury last year that cost him half the season and left him at well under full strength when he returned. That had to have hurt his development. Even now, he is playing with a metal rod in his leg.




 
KenZ 
Postdoc
Posts: 2674
KenZ
Reg: 01-23-06
12-06-18 04:30 PM - Post#268220    
    In response to Bison137

Tooooom!!!

love the way he plays and contributes to the team effort. hope the increased offensive mindedness continues, i don't expect 17 points every game, but a double digit scoring average on top of great defense and rebounding is quite forseeable as long as he stays confident and aggressive.

 
jkrun80 
Postdoc
Posts: 2480

Age: 60
Reg: 05-07-12
LaSalle Game
12-06-18 07:46 PM - Post#268228    
    In response to KenZ

Let me preface this by saying, I agree 100% with res. It is still early and a lot of newer players are still developing. I expected (and posted elsewhere) that there would likely be some inconsistency with great wins and bad losses. That has proven to be true.

I also agree that Toomer and Moore have really picked up their level of play the last few games, which is great to see. They seem to have recognized they need to be serious scoring options, not just defensive specialist.

I used the word "baffling" earlier to describe the Fairfield and Canisius losses. Perhaps not the right word, but with Sestina out for those two games I expected our three most experienced players to step up then to fill the gap left by Nate and cover for Newman to some extent.

Instead Newman admirably held his own for a guy who played only 74 minutes last year, mostly in garbage time. He played nearly that much in these two games alone.

Not to be critical, but numbers don't lie and Moore and Toomer were basically MIA and Mackenzie did not play up to his normal level. Here are the combined stats for those two games.

---PTS/FG/3FG/FT
PN- 25/ 9-18/ 0-0/ 7-11
KM- 25/ 9-29/ 6-15/ 7-9
BM- 8/ 1-10/ 0-3/ 6-6
AT- 12/ 5-11/ 2-7/ 0-5

Hopefully, we're over that hump (though Kimbal's shooting slump worries me). The team is clearly improving, which is great to see. Res is right that the very fact we can think about being competitive in the PL this year is a great thing. I hope that means a shot at winning it all, but it's going to be an interesting ride.

Edited by jkrun80 on 12-06-18 07:48 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
jkrun80 
Postdoc
Posts: 2480

Age: 60
Reg: 05-07-12
12-06-18 08:19 PM - Post#268229    
    In response to jkrun80

Kimbal had 31 pts. Sorry for the typo. His 3-pt average isn't bad, but 3-14 on two's. That's been a issue much of the season.

 
Bison137 
Professor
Posts: 13569
Bison137
Reg: 01-23-06
12-07-18 02:07 AM - Post#268244    
    In response to jkrun80

  • jkrun80 Said:
Kimbal had 31 pts. Sorry for the typo. His 3-pt average isn't bad, but 3-14 on two's. That's been a issue much of the season.





Yes, he didn't shoot well in those two games, but he has hit 8-17 on twos since then, with two of the misses being blocked layup attempts. His shooting pcts are down by a very small amount this year - but it is a very small sample size, so I'm not worried.

This Year: 44% on twos, 34% on threes, 82% on FT's.
Career: . 45% on twos, 37.5% on threes, 84.5% on FT's.


Kimbal's stats this year show major improvement in some areas: much higher assist rate, much lower turnover rate, much higher rate of getting to the line, and slightly higher rebound rate. Assuming good health, I think he will make one of the two top All-PL teams.




 
Bison89 
Postdoc
Posts: 4615
Bison89
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
Re: LaSalle Game
12-07-18 08:21 AM - Post#268252    
    In response to res

  • res Said:
Whoever recently posted that we have become spoiled is absolutely correct. Frankly, given the enormous losses to graduation, the fact that we can argue that the Bison have a reasonable chance at winning the PL title and a reasonable chance at winning the PL tournament is quite remarkable. It argues for the current health of the program, regardless of how things might turn out.

The fact that there have been growing pains in the process shoudn't surprise anyone and shouldn't lead to the level of criticism sometimes directed at specific individuals. Give them a chance and enjoy the ride.

EDIT: Mine is a general response and not directed at crd.



res, very well said. I agree that we have become spoiled. While realizing that this team is a work-in-progress, as a fan, I hope that we continue to be spoiled!
'RAY FOR THE ORANGE AND THE BLUE!


 
jkrun80 
Postdoc
Posts: 2480

Age: 60
Reg: 05-07-12
12-07-18 10:16 AM - Post#268255    
    In response to Bison137

  • Bison137 Said:
Kimbal's stats this year show major improvement in some areas: much higher assist rate, much lower turnover rate, much higher rate of getting to the line, and slightly higher rebound rate. Assuming good health, I think he will make one of the two top All-PL teams.



I agree Kimbal has expanded his game this year and no one can fault his effort. His 1-7 shooting at LaSalle concerned me but he made up for it by getting to the FT line 11 times, and making 10.

 
Bison137 
Professor
Posts: 13569
Bison137
Reg: 01-23-06
12-07-18 01:15 PM - Post#268268    
    In response to jkrun80

  • jkrun80 Said:

I agree Kimbal has expanded his game this year and no one can fault his effort. His 1-7 shooting at LaSalle concerned me but he made up for it by getting to the FT line 11 times, and making 10.




I don't think you can worry too much about the small sample size of a game or two when it comes to 3-point shooting.

How would you like to have a senior who had the following games during his final season? Threes made/threes attempted:

1-8
0-6
0-6
1-6
1-5
0-5

This player during a three game stretch shot 1-14 from beyond the arc, but he kept shooting. It was Zach Thomas, who had a pretty fair senior year despite the occasional terrible shooting game.






 
DoCtoR62 
Senior
Posts: 360

Reg: 05-18-08
12-07-18 03:23 PM - Post#268272    
    In response to Bison137

  • Bison137 Said:
  • jkrun80 Said:

I agree Kimbal has expanded his game this year and no one can fault his effort. His 1-7 shooting at LaSalle concerned me but he made up for it by getting to the FT line 11 times, and making 10.




I don't think you can worry too much about the small sample size of a game or two when it comes to 3-point shooting.

How would you like to have a senior who had the following games during his final season? Threes made/threes attempted:

1-8
0-6
0-6
1-6
1-5
0-5

This player during a three game stretch shot 1-14 from beyond the arc, but he kept shooting. It was Zach Thomas, who had a pretty fair senior year despite the occasional terrible shooting game.






Only good shooters are afforded the luxury of a 1-8 or 0-6 game. Poor shooters would not have the opportunity.


 
Old Bison 
Junior
Posts: 228

Age: 60
Reg: 07-09-17
12-07-18 07:55 PM - Post#268287    
    In response to DoCtoR62

Coaches decide who gets the green light and who doesn’t Been going on for 50+ years

 
Bison89 
Postdoc
Posts: 4615
Bison89
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
12-08-18 07:08 PM - Post#268345    
    In response to Old Bison

OB, did you have the green light? I can tell you that in high school, I never saw a shot the I didn't like!
'RAY FOR THE ORANGE AND THE BLUE!


 
 Page 3 of 3 ALL« First<123
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

1465 Views



Copyright © 2004-2012 Basketball U. Terms of Use for our Site and Privacy Policy are applicable to you. All rights reserved.
Basketball U. and its subsidiaries are not affiliated in any way with any NCAA athletic conference or member institution.
FusionBB™ Version 2.1 | ©2003-2007 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.286 seconds.   Total Queries: 16   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0500) Eastern. Current time is 03:56 AM
Top