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Username Post: Del.        (Topic#22225)
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3466

Reg: 11-23-04
12-02-18 04:17 PM - Post#267815    

First time watching Lions this year. Some great shooting and some questionable D by both. I thought Engles did the better coaching job.

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2888

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
12-02-18 04:22 PM - Post#267817    
    In response to Old Bear

Del made 2/3 of threes, won in 2 OT's by 1 pt
west coast fan


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2100

Reg: 03-02-08
12-02-18 05:55 PM - Post#267822    
    In response to internetter

We need to make some lineup adjustments. I understand that our defense is our biggest issue, but we cannot have players who cannot produce offensively get significant minutes. Hopefully all of these close games will provide some valuable lessons for the IL season.


 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
Re: Del.
12-02-18 06:24 PM - Post#267823    
    In response to Old Bear

O.B.:
In the interest of making a fair assessment of the beleaguered coach's work, I'd love to know exactly what words you can offer in defense of Engles as the superior game coach today. All I know is that Columbia had the lead at the half today; just as they did two Sundays ago at Fordham, and in so many other Jim Engles-coached Columbia basketball games. At the start of the second half, Delaware went on an immediate run. Engles waited till 15 minutes and 28 seconds were left on the game before calling a timeout- by then, Delaware had scored on 2 layups & 3 three pointers, and had limited Columbia to 2 made Mike Smith free throws; turning a 2 point deficit into a nine point advantage for the Blue Hens. Ultimately, just another moral victory for the Columbia kids; another loss by a razor thin margin for the team with Jim Engles supposedly on its side.


 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
Del.
12-02-18 06:44 PM - Post#267824    
    In response to Chet Forte

So true, Chet! Tai Bibbs and Rodney Hunter both started again today, and combined to offer nothing, once again, offensively. In three games of this nascent season -against Marist , Fordham and today against Delaware- those two have gone scoreless!!! While Jake Killingsworth and Quinton Adlesh combined for 74 minutes of action off the bench this afternoon, it did seem to take them a while to get into the flow of the game, offensively- they made only 1 three pointer between the two of them in the first half. Finally, as extraordinary as Mike Smith's play has truly been against 4 of Columbia's initial 5, Division-1, opponents, does he really need to be out there for 49 minutes, as was the the case this afternoon? If Eagles can't find a way to give #21 a couple of minutes of rest, at least in the first halves of these games, what likely chance is there of him coming up with a plan of action if Smith does reach an inevitable breaking point?


Edited by AntiUngvar on 12-02-18 06:52 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2100

Reg: 03-02-08
12-02-18 06:51 PM - Post#267825    
    In response to AntiUngvar

I think Tai Bibbs has real offensive potential and cannot understand the lack of production.


 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
12-02-18 06:58 PM - Post#267826    
    In response to Chet Forte

Yes, I do, too. But three ZEROS put up by he and Hunter against Marist, Fordham and today/v. Delaware????? Hard to figure. I can almost see them lost in thought out there.


 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1664

Reg: 10-09-09
12-02-18 07:39 PM - Post#267828    
    In response to AntiUngvar

Hunter's offensive rating today was 19! Everyone else's was north of 100.

The three pt defense is a mystery. Delaware shot 15 of 23, with an astonishing # of open shots from the corners. We shot 13-25, but until our defense improves, there is a pretty low ceiling on our chances.

While I was at the game,I did have a revealing conversation with the parent of a player. She was quite emphatic that the players really like Engles' and that whatever was happening was not his fault.

 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
12-02-18 08:24 PM - Post#267830    
    In response to cc66

66:
You want to believe the players constituting the present day team like him, then be prepared to concede that those 5 recently departed players (along with the 2 assistant coaching fatalities) most probably didn't. The kid from Vegas, Ellis, didn't get in the game today- was that about the kid's work product in practice and games; or was it about the kid's father tweeting in a manner Engles doesn't appreciate?
But popularity aside, it's absolutely INARGUABLE that Engles seems to consistently wind up on the wrong side of so many of these nail-biter games. In fact, the ONLY close one that he's been on the winning side of, recently, was the Dartmouth game at Levien last February- played against the last place team in the IL; and a game which should have realistically been won going away, and not by 3 points!!!


 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1664

Reg: 10-09-09
12-02-18 08:41 PM - Post#267831    
    In response to AntiUngvar

I don't know why Ellis wasn't in the game today. I assumed he didn't dress because he was injured. Unless you have solid information connecting what his father said to Ellis' absence, it is pretty toxic and corrosive to speculate in such a conspiratorial manner.

As for the players who left, Faulds and Hanson were roommates who, according to the parent I mentioned above, were upset about the lack of playing time. That makes sense to me, because Faulds came highly ranked and then found himself, probably because he was inexperienced and relatively slow, playing behind the comparatively unheralded Tape. I suspect, too, that Faulds and Hanson also fit into the long tradition of students from the midwest who have difficulty transitioning to NYC. Add in Meisner's distinctly separate decision that he could make decent money now as a professional basketball player in Germany, and it is clear that independent of Engles, Columbia is experiencing a perfect storm.

 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
12-02-18 09:08 PM - Post#267833    
    In response to cc66

The father's been on Twitter in a critical manner, and we've already seen it where a son's been punished for the supposed sins of the father (Ithaca, January 27, 2018). Certainly you. of all people, would have picked up any information put forth on any player injury; not to mention, that the boy, Ellis, played a solid contributory role in the most recent (before today's) two games- versus Fordham and St. Joseph's. You broach the issue of student-athletes challenged by transitioning to New York City, so I'll point out that a coach's priority must be to facilitate in that transition- he is the one person the kids and their families are rightfully placing their trust in. Also, few kids leave the University, when they're in excellent academic standing and less than 30 credits from receiving their Columbia College diploma- there's more to that departure, too, than you want to put into or words or even know about.


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2100

Reg: 03-02-08
12-02-18 09:09 PM - Post#267834    
    In response to cc66

The results have not been there, to be sure. But the issue is whether we have a talent deficit which precludes us from playing decent defense or a lack of coaching skill. One constant is our uncanny inability to defend against the three point shot.


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1605

Reg: 02-14-06
12-02-18 10:19 PM - Post#267835    
    In response to Chet Forte

Another incredible performance by Mike Smith leading unfortunately to still another heartbreaking Columbia loss. This is indeed the preeminent feature of the Engles era and needs to stop. I don't care if the players like Engles or not, his job as head basketball coach is to build a winning program, develop the skills of the players who are already in the program, recruit and retain better players than your competitors, make the right coaching moves during the game, and at least give fans some reason to be hopeful about the short-term and long-term future. Obviously, none of that has happened yet thru year 3 of the Engles era. If there is a "talent deficit" as Chet Forte suggests, that's obviously Engles' fault and certainly not an excuse for the sad decline of the Columbia Men's Basketball Program during his tenure. Engles is just fortunate that for whatever reasons he is still the head coach at Columbia. Engles' problems are of his own making, and not the players. Hopefully, he can reverse things quickly, but if not this is going to be one dreadful season for Columbia Basketball fans

 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
Del.
12-03-18 12:25 AM - Post#267838    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

P6:
You and Chet know there's no talent deficit; this truth, despite the attrition rate of the past year. In simplest terms, Mike Smith gives you a kid who'll breakdown any defense. Adlesh. Barba, Killingsworth and Stef give you four outstanding 3 point shot makers. CU should not be in this mess but for Engles and the crackerjack committee that foisted him upon us!


Edited by AntiUngvar on 12-03-18 12:26 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2888

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
12-03-18 01:42 AM - Post#267842    
    In response to AntiUngvar

for what it's worth
They beat Cornell there 73-56

@ St. Peter's 78-75 win OT

Lost by 6 at MD-College Park

west coast fan


 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
12-03-18 10:08 AM - Post#267871    
    In response to internetter

Good information to be mindful of; you're a man a good, Internetter, and I hope the kids can win a couple for you, especially. But they better show up in Ithaca looking to blow the house down like Delaware apparently did; because if the game's left in Engles's sweaty palms at the end, you're all too well aware of what will happen.


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1605

Reg: 02-14-06
12-03-18 11:57 AM - Post#267875    
    In response to AntiUngvar

Huge week ahead for Columbia. The Lions need to win their two home games against Colgate and Bryant and then defeat Iona at Madison Square Garden on Sunday.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1267

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
12-03-18 12:53 PM - Post#267885    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Giving the respect due to Columbia's roster, after losing Meisner, Faulds and Hanson it is hard not to see that there is a talent deficit. A deficit must exist compared to the contemplated returning roster. That doesn't mean that Columbia won't be competitive in many games, but certainly the depth must be suffering. Also, the 3 point shooters you mention won't defend, rebound and score inside the way you would like to be able to. When replacing Meisner with anyone on your list, Columbia has to suffer a talent deficit.




 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
Del.
12-03-18 01:12 PM - Post#267887    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Depth is suffering, and certainly impacting defensive effort, particularly late in games (another reason to utilize available time outs). But more can be achieved with what is available. Given this current CU roster, Amaker, Steve from Penn, Mitch Henderson, Jones of Yale, et al would have more to show than 1-5; I assure you of that!


Edited by AntiUngvar on 12-03-18 01:13 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1267

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
12-03-18 01:43 PM - Post#267889    
    In response to AntiUngvar

As pointed out, Columbia has 3 winnable games coming up. Best of Luck.

On the other hand, if winning those games means riding Mike Smith for 35+ minutes, the desire to win every game must be balanced with the upcoming Ivy season. Smith can’t possibly play 70-80 minutes on Fridays+Saturdays without showing some effects. Columbia has to develop other options down the roster. OOC is the time to do so.

 
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