Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-05-18 07:01 PM - Post#268150
Someone said it in the Miami thread, but definitely see La Salle as a trap game after this one. Considering how we lost to La Salle last year, hopefully the guys can still really get up for a Big 5 game.
KP only has us as a 4 point favorite away, and La Salle played very well against Villanova at the Palestra and being 0-9 but still ranked 233... they are going to be ready to play so hopefully we still have a couple of 3 point bullets in the gun!
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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12-05-18 09:35 PM - Post#268164
In response to Mike Porter
I think we'd all agree that AJ played very well last night. Remember that the only time he played at LaSalle, he had 35. I agree, however, that the guys can't look past this game. I don't think that Steve D will let that happen.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-05-18 10:43 PM - Post#268173
In response to SteveChop
It’s a big 5 game, there will be no looking past this.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-08-18 09:48 AM - Post#268306
In response to PennFan10
Penn -6 is the line
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1125
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-08-18 05:09 PM - Post#268316
In response to PennFan10
Well, it's nice to hear they have their own version of Vince Curran.
Refs swallowing their whistles will not help us.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2138
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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12-08-18 05:20 PM - Post#268318
In response to 91Quake
Both teams look sloppy. Interesting to see Simmons first big off the bench.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2138
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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12-08-18 05:48 PM - Post#268322
In response to weinhauers_ghost
We're +18 at the half. LaSalle's offense has stalled out and their defense has been inattentive. We've forced them into two shot clock violations and done a nice job of cutting off passing lanes.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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12-08-18 05:56 PM - Post#268324
In response to weinhauers_ghost
This team just takes care of business. They don't let up. I was a bit afraid of intensity level heading in - maybe I'm used to how things were before Donahue. Things are different now.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1125
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-08-18 05:56 PM - Post#268325
In response to weinhauers_ghost
This looked like Steve's attempt to see if he can stretch the rotation with meaningful minutes to Jarrod, Donahue, etc.
Glad our D picked up because our offense looked stagnant there as Lasalle was overplaying the passing lanes.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4360
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-08-18 05:58 PM - Post#268327
In response to TheLine
And they really move the ball. Unlike Miami where everything dropped we are up a ton and not making everything we throw at the basket.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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12-08-18 06:01 PM - Post#268328
In response to AsiaSunset
There are two keys to knowing you have a good team IMO - grinding it out when the shots aren't falling and wearing the opponent down at the end of the halves. Both are on display today.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2138
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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12-08-18 06:06 PM - Post#268330
In response to 91Quake
I was surprised to see Silpe, JD and Goodman on the floor together. This is one of those rare games where we don't seem to suffer too much from a lack of height at the guard spots.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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12-08-18 06:54 PM - Post#268333
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Final seconds. 20+ point lead. When's the last team we've won by that margin in a Big 5 game?
Don't look now but team is shooting 78% from the line.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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12-08-18 07:09 PM - Post#268337
In response to TheLine
It has also probably been a long time since another Big Five team has been so poor.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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12-08-18 07:22 PM - Post#268339
In response to penn nation
This team really just bears down and works hard. They don't shoot really well, but they help each other get good shots. Their cuts were beautiful today. I don't know how their talent stacks up against H&Y, as I don't follow those teams. Regardless, I know this team will compete.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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12-08-18 07:54 PM - Post#268341
In response to Penndemonium
Total beat down. Feel bad for Lasalle fans--they have a ways to go to be respectable.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-08-18 08:32 PM - Post#268350
In response to OldBig5
It'll be interesting to see the line for Tuesday's game. I'm going to guess it'll be around 7 points.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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12-08-18 08:37 PM - Post#268353
In response to 10Q
In my day, The Line was around 2 blocks long.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-08-18 08:49 PM - Post#268356
In response to penn nation
Shavua tov. Watching the replay now.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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12-08-18 09:34 PM - Post#268361
In response to penn nation
In my day, The Line was around 2 blocks long.
I have a good response but this is a family friendly site.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2138
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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La Salle
12-08-18 10:29 PM - Post#268367
In response to Penndemonium
This team really just bears down and works hard. They don't shoot really well, but they help each other get good shots. Their cuts were beautiful today. I don't know how their talent stacks up against H&Y, as I don't follow those teams. Regardless, I know this team will compete.
I watched most of the Duke-Yale game. Duke did to them what we did to LaSalle, pretty much. I am not really sure what an Ivy opponent can learn from watching Yale in a game like that. What I can point to is that Bruner, Reynolds and Atkinson are going to be a handful in the paint. I doubt we can count on Oni playing the way he did in last spring's semifinal game.
Where I think we have a definite advantage is that they don't really have a point guard who distributes and sets up their offense. They run through Oni as much as they do anyone else. If our defense remains solid, we'll be in good shape. And they still have to figure out a defensive answer for Wang.
Our only common opponent so far this year has been Miami; given that we played them at home while Yale beat them on the road, I'm not sure what we learn from those games.
The top of the Ivy is going to be interesting this year.
Edited by weinhauers_ghost on 12-08-18 10:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-08-18 11:52 PM - Post#268370
In response to 10Q
Kenpom has it as a 5 point Nova win so my guess is it would be in that kind of range also.
La Salle is bad, but at one point we had them doubled up 50-25 and I actually didn’t think we were playing that well!
The progress made here the last few years by Coach Donahue and team is fantastic, and hope we can keep showing that progression, including next Tues.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-09-18 12:51 AM - Post#268371
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Those three were out there with Woods and Wang, so four guards. First I can recall seeing that combo this year. Could be something we see against Columbia, so probably a decent time to give a four guard lineup a little run.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12530
Reg: 12-07-04
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12-09-18 01:16 AM - Post#268373
In response to SomeGuy
I was stuck at a work event all day but caught the last 2 minutes of the first half. It was a good 2 minutes to catch. When was the last time we went into a Nova game thinking we had a realistic shot, not just a pipe dream? This is fun.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Re: La Salle
12-09-18 08:47 AM - Post#268381
In response to weinhauers_ghost
I watched most of the Duke-Yale game. Duke did to them what we did to LaSalle, pretty much. I am not really sure what an Ivy opponent can learn from watching Yale in a game like that. What I can point to is that Bruner, Reynolds and Atkinson are going to be a handful in the paint. I doubt we can count on Oni playing the way he did in last spring's semifinal game.
Agree it's limited what you can learn from that game.
The pros: Yale is more athletic than it was last year. Bruner's return gives Yale front court depth. Oni looks significantly better. Phills, Reynolds and Swain have added to their games.
The cons: There wasn't a lot of synergy on either end of the court. Some of that has to do with the opponent but some is that individualism seems baked into Jones' style. More cohesive teams can take advantage of that.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8236
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-09-18 09:42 AM - Post#268384
In response to Quakers03
Some thoughts from a (less than) half full Hayman Hall or whatever they call it now -
LaSalle is very much a work in progress. They were playing without their 5th year leading scorer (this really helped the matchups for Penn) and their talented guys are all young and foul prone. They were overmatched.
Likely after watching us rain 3s on Miami, the Explorers can out on D determined to take the arc away. SD clearly saw this coming and had our guys cutting behind the D all afternoon getting one layup after another. Defensively, Max and AJ were able to control the low post game and the guards forced a ton of turnovers that lead to easy buckets.
I loved the fact that SD adjusted the rotation to account for matchups. Shooting was not the priority. Post defense was. Hence Jarrod was in before Wang and no JD until late in the game. When they started to collapse on AJ, Wang came in to hit 3s and open things up. He was also key on the breaks off the TOs, including a sick no lookie pass to a cutting Goodman (I think) underneath.
Some random stuff. Max had a bad day. Looked like he was bothered by back spasms as he spent the last few minutes prone on the sideline with one of those support belts on. Goodman was tremendous at both ends. If we beat up on Yale, it will be because they have no answer for him. Woods was solid as always, and he is hitting his open 3s. Jake also had another good game. So good to see him capitalize on his PT.
At one point, deep in the 2nd half, when Penn started turning it over too much, SD put his ‘experience’ team out there with Jake, JD, and Woods out there with AJ at the same time just to settle things down and get 25+ seconds out of every possession.
We also saw Eddie Scott out there for a look. He did not do a lot, but his athleticism is striking. There was that block from behind that looked like what Duke was doing to Yale.
One last note, I heard that, as of now, it looks like we will see Tyler back in time for the Ivy weekends.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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Re: La Salle
12-09-18 10:18 AM - Post#268388
In response to TheLine
If you watched Yale play against Miami you may have an entirely different opinion. I watched that game and came away thinking it’s hard not to consider Yale the favorites in the IL this year.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: La Salle
12-09-18 10:54 AM - Post#268389
In response to PennFan10
I felt that way after watching their game at Memphis.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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12-09-18 12:28 PM - Post#268392
In response to penn nation
I missed both those games.
If they played more like a team in those games then yes, Yale should be considered the favorite at this point. They certainly have the talent.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-09-18 01:07 PM - Post#268394
In response to TheLine
The question is whether Yale can continue its improvement shooting from 3. They still take a lot fewer than Penn and shoot for a lower percentage, but they are considerably improved at it from last year. Right now, Penn is shooting just under 40% on the season from 3 and have taken a lot of them....which starts to predict that we will continue to do it well rather than revert to a lower mean. We have waited a long time to open up such a good inside-outside offensive game. Yale may be more athletic, but will have trouble matching up on defense. I'm looking forward to the Ivy season....but first, Villanova.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-09-18 02:32 PM - Post#268401
In response to palestra38
Shooting can be mean reverting. Remember last year Harvard shot somewhere u set 30% right up until conference play and then shot close to 40% from 3 the rest of the way. As if a switch went off.
I’m a believer in Penn’s perimeter shooting as it’s coming from multiple players and flare mostly from open shots through the offense resulting in assisted looks.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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12-09-18 03:02 PM - Post#268404
In response to PennFan10
I don't think you can judge Yale in any way by the Duke game. It's not like they were simply playing a good college team. Duke's lineup will look like a pretty decent NBA team in a few years.
Many were commenting on how Yale's PG looked out of sorts. My thought was that he had a pretty good handle and will be tough in the Ivy season.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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12-09-18 03:04 PM - Post#268406
In response to PennFan10
A chief concern is that 2 of our main guys who get to the line are shooting below whatever the basketball equivalent is of the Mendoza line.
That's worrisome and may cost us in Ivy play.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-09-18 04:10 PM - Post#268412
In response to penn nation
I'm probably just naive, but I'm not overly worried about Yale. Sure, they have great talent, blah, blah, blah. But their coach is solidly mediocre at best. I'm pretty sure that Steve (in whom I believe) has Jones' number, just as Dunphy had Carril's number for the last few years of Pete's tenure.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12530
Reg: 12-07-04
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La Salle
12-09-18 04:15 PM - Post#268415
In response to Silver Maple
Agreed in full. Coaching is the major wildcard. Same for the Harvard matchup. What a pleasure it is to know we're on the right side of that equation.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-09-18 07:37 PM - Post#268423
In response to Quakers03
I don’t think there is a lot of separation between the top 3 teams right now. We won’t fear anyone and IL play will be as intense as ever with the bottom half also closing the gap with the top half of the league.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-09-18 08:26 PM - Post#268428
In response to Penndemonium
I think the comment was more that Yale doesn’t really play with a point guard, which to me is true (and was true last year).
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-09-18 09:32 PM - Post#268434
In response to SomeGuy
i think james jones is pretty solid, i'd agree we have a slight edge in coaching but that edge is swamped by having the tourney in new haven. i mean it's not like we'll have no chance, but that's a pretty big hammer.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-09-18 09:51 PM - Post#268436
In response to Jeff2sf
Yes, I don’t really understand the criticism Jones gets. The consistency over his tenure is really quite impressive. They will be tough this year, like most years, and they will be particularly tough to beat at home in the Ivy tournament.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12530
Reg: 12-07-04
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12-10-18 01:47 AM - Post#268449
In response to SomeGuy
Believe me, I'd feel more comfortable facing Tommy, and Jones has done more with less as well as anyone, but coming from a position of being the favorite? However, having to play in New Haven certainly offsets any advantage Penn may have in that department.
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Okoro Dude
Senior
Posts: 309
Loc: Glen Mills, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
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12-10-18 10:33 AM - Post#268470
In response to PennFan10
I am a Penn season ticketholder but happened to be at the Garden this weekend with my son and saw Columbia/Iona and Princeton/St. John's. Princeton's defense (particularly in transition) was bad, but Jaelin Llewellyn did not disappoint. He will be a star in the Ivies - I haven't seen anyone in the Ivies who can take people off the dribble as good as him. If they are able to figure out the defensive end and use non-conference to improve their team play, I don't think they are as far behind the top three as people are saying.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1125
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-10-18 10:44 AM - Post#268472
In response to Okoro Dude
Llewellyn is the real deal. Looked very good and it was his first game. BUT, looking at Pton's frontline is where they are not close to the top 3 right now. Gladson is slow and not athletic and they don't have enough talent in the frontcourt compared to H, Y, or us.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-10-18 11:24 AM - Post#268477
In response to 91Quake
an nba prospect as a guard can cover a lot of front court sins. a lot.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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12-10-18 12:27 PM - Post#268486
In response to Jeff2sf
an nba prospect as a guard can cover a lot of front court sins. a lot.
Which raises an interesting question (in my mind, anyway.)
If you could have one NBA-level guy on your team, at what position would you want him?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-10-18 12:29 PM - Post#268488
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
A big guard, without question. After all, look what Michael Jordan did with the Toon Squad, which was seriously outmatched up front by the MonStars.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-10-18 12:48 PM - Post#268494
In response to palestra38
Agreed. Furthermore, guards can always deploy the Harlem Globetrotters Ladder strategy to neutralize the size advantage of front court players.
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