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Username Post: Colgate        (Topic#22246)
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1664

Reg: 10-09-09
12-05-18 08:58 PM - Post#268166    

Another tortuous loss: down by 15, we pull ahead 62-61, Colgate hits a three, and we miss a 3 at buzzer to lose 64-62.

We should beat Bryant on Friday, but after that, against Iona, BC, Rutgers, Northwestern, and Binghamton, we can expect to be 2-11.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1606

Reg: 02-14-06
12-05-18 09:14 PM - Post#268170    
    In response to cc66

Brumant is showing improvement, but he has to remember not to shot from far outside. He successfully launched a three early in the game, but he missed a long three down the stretch. Adlesh is a better shooter from above the key than the corner, but Engles had no choice but to give him the ball in the corner at the clock. That was a good call in my opinion

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2100

Reg: 03-02-08
12-05-18 09:44 PM - Post#268174    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Excruciating. It is really uncanny how we simply cannot close out winnable games. Smith did not have a good game. In fact, I think it was one of the worst games he has played since he has been at Columbia. And this comment is coming from a huge fan of his. If he were on we would have won going away.


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4704

Reg: 11-22-04
12-05-18 10:47 PM - Post#268177    
    In response to Chet Forte

Was Smith really that bad? He didn’t shoot it well, but he had 8 assists and only one turnover. The assists mean he actually contributed around his normal output.

 
Dr. V 
PhD Student
Posts: 1420

Reg: 11-21-04
12-06-18 01:12 AM - Post#268185    
    In response to SomeGuy

I’m on a brief trip overseas so was only able to read about rather than watch our last two games. They remind of the old blues line about how if we didn’t have bad luck, we’d have no luck at all,

Seems to me that at this point our fan focus should be on the most basic of issues: are our student athletes playing hard and are they playing together? I think the answer to both questions is yes. This prompts the thought that now more than ever our student athletes, the team and the coaches need our support. I am looking forward to being at MSG to root our guys on this Sunday!

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2100

Reg: 03-02-08
12-06-18 06:23 AM - Post#268188    
    In response to Dr. V

In fairness, Smith played 40 minutes. Where this shows upp is in the last few minutes of a close game. He forced a few I’ll chosen drives to the basket and missed a few threes. I get the 8 assists, but I think we are making a mistake in playing him more than 32-34 minutes a game. He is just out of gas at the end of close games. Just my opinion. As far as Dr. V’s comment about support, Imfully agree that our guys need it now more than ever and will be there on Sunday. Finally, I think we are more feed five defensively when we press and IMHO that is what led to our comeback.


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4704

Reg: 11-22-04
12-06-18 07:21 AM - Post#268189    
    In response to Chet Forte

Yes, it is better if he plays 32-34. But when do you sit him when you are down 15?

From the last point they were down 10, Smith assisted four of the five baskets as Columbia came all the way back to take the lead.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1606

Reg: 02-14-06
12-06-18 10:52 AM - Post#268197    
    In response to SomeGuy

It's amazing that on a guard laden roster Engles apparently doesn't have a single player that he could substitute for Mike Smith for even a few moments. I agree with Dr. V's plea for unity, but the problem is that everyone who has closely followed Columbia basketball the last several years knows that Engles is solely responsible for the rapid deterioration of the Columbia Men's Basketball program from day one of his head coaching career at Columbia. As head coach, Engles is the person that has to be responsible for the undeniably poor player development, recruitment, and retention. Losing half your frontcourt players prior to the season beginning was a horrible miscue. Sure other Ivies have lost a player or two, but Engles lost three key players + Castlin. Meanwhile Engles only recruited two frontcourt players who were immediately eligible. In addition to all the player issues, Engles' game management has been a serious issue from day one, with weird substitution patterns and end of game strategies. Then, we have the blown opportunities to get into the Ivy League Tournament on the last game of the season. Yes, we can always hope for better, but we can't hide the truth.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2100

Reg: 03-02-08
12-06-18 11:21 AM - Post#268202    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Here are my personnel questions: why is CJ Davis not playing, since he is a proven commodity as a backup PG; why isn’t Tai Bibbs producing in games, since he seems to have all of the tools to be successful; why is Mike Smith not able to break down defenses on a regular basis and why does he struggle against teams where he should be dominant; why is Hunter starting since he has no offensive game; why are Tape’s minutes limited; why isn’t our starting lineup Smith, Adlesh, Stef, Tape and Nweke, with Killingsworth and Bramante the first guys off the bench?


 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1664

Reg: 10-09-09
12-06-18 11:55 AM - Post#268206    
    In response to Chet Forte

Smith is quick, but short: with enough agile tall players, a team can stop him driving. On days when his 3s also aren't falling, his production drops, to be partly offset in an increasingly self-aware and purposeful manner by his efforts at distributing the ball.

But apart from this one mild qualification, the questions you have listed above are the same ones I would ask.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1606

Reg: 02-14-06
12-06-18 02:56 PM - Post#268215    
    In response to cc66

Amen Chet ! It's a no brainer to have two of three bigs on the floor together! However, I would be inclined to use a combination of Tape and Brumant as my first option, with Tape and Nweke as the second option. Still, either combination is obviously the way to go because of the tremendous athleticism of those three guys. Earlier in the season, I wondered why Engles was not going with the combination you mentioned, and assumed that he was either concerned with the bigs getting early foul trouble or their inexperience would show. At this point, I believe using two of the named bigs together is essential to the success of this Lion Basketball Team.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4704

Reg: 11-22-04
12-06-18 06:37 PM - Post#268225    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Maybe, although the last couple of games it seems like Nweke has played them out of using two bigs with fouls and turnovers. He needs to keep himself on the floor for it to work.

I’ll also make my standard point that Columbia continues to lose games almost entirely because of the defense. As bad as the season has started, Columbia continues to be a middle of the pack offensive team in pomeroy. Only Yale is significantly ahead of them offensively. Defense is where they are dead last in the league (and bottom 30 nationally. I am far less concerned about Hunter and Bibbs failing to score than I am about who plays the best defense. Personally I think guard size is more of a problem than size up front. But if starting two bigs also let’s Killingsworth or Hunter be the third guard, it might help.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1606

Reg: 02-14-06
12-07-18 12:17 AM - Post#268242    
    In response to SomeGuy

Agreed regarding foul issues, significance of defense and guard size questions, but it just seems to me that Chet is correct in his assessment that the best line-up for Columbia would include two bigs. Of course, the team only has three bigs, so Engles may not have the depth to make it work. Also, switching suddenly to a two big man line-up is not easy to do and would require some very sharp coaching. Incidentally, the probable starters for the Bryant game are Nweke, Hunter, Stef, Bibbs and Smith which could mean lots of different things. At the very least, it looks like Engles is still trying to get Bibbs going. Hopefully, he will have a breakout game against Bryant.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4704

Reg: 11-22-04
12-07-18 07:33 AM - Post#268248    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Bryant seems like an important game to me for figuring out where Columbia is. So far, Youngstown State is the one team Columbia lost to that is behind them in Pomeroy. Lose to another one, and it starts to look like they might actually be worse than their rank.


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1606

Reg: 02-14-06
12-07-18 11:13 AM - Post#268257    
    In response to SomeGuy

I agree that it is an important game, but the important thing is to see more improvement in all the areas we are talking about, such as player development, individual player comfort zones and particular game strategies. Having really thought about Columbia's basketball situation lately, I have reached the following conclusions: (1) Columbia has sufficient talent to become a winning team this season and even capture the fourth spot in the Ivy League Tournament; and 2. For Columbia to become a winning team this season, the coaching staff needs to use a starting line-up with two of its three bigs, Smith, Stef and then either Adlesh, Bibbs, Hunter, Killingsworth, Ellis and Barba as basically a five man final guard rotation.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2100

Reg: 03-02-08
12-07-18 12:11 PM - Post#268260    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Hunter is in the starting lineup again. And Tape is not. Nor is Brumant. I just don’t get it.


 
rbg 
PhD Student
Posts: 1048

Reg: 10-20-14
12-07-18 12:59 PM - Post#268266    
    In response to Chet Forte

Here is the 3 point info at KenPom:

Columbia 3 point offense 37.8% (#61) vs
Bryant 3 point defense 44.2% (#352)

Columbia 3 point defense 43.1% (#347) vs
Bryant 3 point offense 26.4% (#336)

At Brown, Bryant shot 20.8% from three and Brown shot 35.0%.
Against Yale, Bryant shot 22.6% from three and Yale shot 62.5% (!).

Especially playing at home, the Lions should win that battle.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4704

Reg: 11-22-04
12-07-18 03:59 PM - Post#268273    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

In some regards, I agree with you. I actually think Columbia can finish 4th without playing much better than they have so far — the Lions aren’t that far behind Princeton and Brown, who currently are the teams that would be 4th or 5th. The Pomeroy ranks aren’t all that different from where Princeton and Cornell were last year, and Cornell pulled it off.

The reason I view Bryant as important is b/c it gives more information as to what Columbia is — if they really are a 250ish pomeroy team, they’ll be competitive in the league. However, the loss to Youngstown State combined with no victories raises the possibility that the Lions are worse than their rank. Beating Bryant handily would at least provide some indication that the pomeroy number is accurate (or even low).

On the rotation, does it really matter who starts? Agreed that Adlesh is one of your top 3 guards. But it seems obvious that Engles views it that way too. Is whether his minutes come at the very start a difference maker?

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1664

Reg: 10-09-09
Colgate
12-07-18 05:09 PM - Post#268280    
    In response to SomeGuy

Although it doesn't yet show in w/l column, I do think we're better than we showed against Youngstown. We play harder and more cohesively, and even if our KP defensive rating has sunk, it looks to me as if we are playing at least somewhat tighter defense. Note, too, about wins/losses, that the last 3 games we have lost--were all to KP team 60-80 slots above us--by a combined total of four points.

I'm curious: why do you think our defense is so lousy? Too many short guards; too many young players; insufficient height; or d) all of the above?

Edited by cc66 on 12-07-18 05:11 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Tod Howard Hawks 
Pre-Frosh
Posts: 5

Age: 74
Reg: 03-17-14
12-07-18 05:41 PM - Post#268282    
    In response to cc66

My gut (and now my brain) still tells me Columbia Basketball is in for a very, very long and dismal season.

Bottom line: to turn around the fortunes of our team, Engles, ineluctably, will have to go.


 
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