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Username Post: forfeits?        (Topic#2226)
CaliHawk 
Freshman
Posts: 17

Reg: 01-23-06
01-24-06 02:11 PM - Post#13903    

The Morning Call is reporting the we're offering to forfeit 13 of our wins last season because of the Joe Knight eligibility fiasco. I guess that's the usual punishment for using an ineligible player, but it doesn't seem right to have Billy Taylor's coaching record reflect last year as a 1-28 season. In any case this has been terrible PR for my alma mater.

 
thom 
newbie
Posts: 5

Reg: 01-23-06
Re: forfeits?
01-24-06 02:19 PM - Post#13904    
    In response to CaliHawk

I voted yes and like I said on the Colgate board I think there should be a heavier punishment. Our schools employ people full time whose job is to make sure everything is on the up and up in this area. Who is Lehigh's compliance person and why were they asleep at the wheel here?

 
CaliHawk 
Freshman
Posts: 17

Reg: 01-23-06
Re: forfeits?
01-24-06 02:36 PM - Post#13905    
    In response to thom

I'm not sure what to think. I do think it's unfair for Taylor's coaching record to suffer like that, when it was the school that messed up. What about firing the compliance person?

It's really unfortunate that this is coming up like this right before the Bucknell game. As if the team needed any distractions before their biggest game of the season.

 
bison02 
newbie
Posts: 30

Reg: 01-23-06
Re: forfeits?
01-24-06 04:34 PM - Post#13906    
    In response to CaliHawk

Even admittedly as a BU alum, I have to say that I feel bad for the kid who has been punished long enough for something that Lehigh should have fessed up to long ago. They made a stupid error (I'll even give the administration the benefit of the doubt) but to claim that Knight was out due to injury? Come on... that's plain embarrassing for the institution. How does the local media portray the situation?

 
Bison137 
Professor
Posts: 16147
Bison137
Reg: 01-23-06
Re: forfeits?
01-24-06 04:39 PM - Post#13907    
    In response to bison02

I think perhaps the most embarassing thing for Lehigh is that their AD continues to blame the NCAA, even though the rule is quite clear, and there is no question Lehigh was in violation. In the Call this morning, he again claims Knight was not ineligible, which shows him to either be stupid or a liar. After hearing this sort of talk from him over and over again, it makes it kind of hard for me to believe it was an honest mistake.




 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 4350

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: forfeits?
01-25-06 10:38 AM - Post#13908    
    In response to Bison137

Don't know the facts in this case, but in the Ivies we had two cases of using ineligible players that were resolved differently in the 90's/early 2000's. Both involved using 5th year med redshirt FB players who played despite carrying less than the full NCAA mandated course load. In one case, Penn voluntarily forfeited the 5 games. In the 2nd, Columbia was not made to forfeit the games. The facts and circumstances were not identical, but in both cases administrative lapses were found to have occurred, but there was no finding of malfeasance. The Penn case was clearly more complex because there was an attempt to cure the problem and there was a time lapse. Columbia of course had the benefit of the Penn situation having preceeded their's, so they responded immediately. Still - my sense is Penn might have avoided forfeiting the games if it had not self imposed in advance of the NCAA investigation. The investigation heavily criticized the Penn lapses but again without a finding of malfeasance it was a fairly low level violation.

Lessons learned: Different levels of offense carry different penalties. In Penn's case they probably would have been wise to wait and not self impose. In all cases, you need to open the kimona, let the NCAA in to investigate and fully and honestly disclose the facts. But - I wouldn't assume the outcome or the appropriate penalty in advance of that investigation even though the NCAA rules seem to be clear on use of ineligible players. If you read them, you will conclude forfeiture; however, Columbia did not have to forfeit the games (they actually won one of them).

This case might involve forfeiture, but it hardly seems serious enough to start pulling scholarships and might in fact just involve a wrist slap. You never know.

 
bison63 
Postdoc
Posts: 3857

Reg: 01-23-06
Re: forfeits?
01-25-06 01:31 PM - Post#13909    
    In response to AsiaSunset

Asia, here are the facts:

http://www.hooptimeonline.com/2005/12/knights-status-clarified.html

Forfeits only serve to punish the innocent (the players and Knight). While they do hurt the coach, as his record suffers greatly, if this is the extent of the punishment they let the arrogant AD, who doth protest his innocence too much, go scot free.

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 4350

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: forfeits?
01-25-06 02:39 PM - Post#13910    
    In response to bison63

I guess my only point was that there appears to be a hard fast NCAA rule: use an ineligle player - forfeit the game.

However, I don't think it's that hard and fast based on the Columbia result I cited.

 
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