Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-12-18 11:17 AM - Post#268812
move Mike into the starting lineup.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8293
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-12-18 12:13 PM - Post#268825
In response to Jeff2sf
Only if Max's back gets worse. Besides, SD plays matchups. The rotation will likely change game-game.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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12-12-18 12:20 PM - Post#268828
In response to Streamers
Mike played 34 minutes against Nova, 27 against Miami.
That's more important than who's starting.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-12-18 12:36 PM - Post#268832
In response to TheLine
only if it sets up the rotation (you see this a lot in nba) in a way that makes sense. Like if you really really wanted mike's offense out there with backups. But we don't play backups. He needs to be the starter. He's better than the guy he'd replace and this is a meritocracy.
S P A C I N G
SPACING
SP A C I NG
S P A C I N G
S PACING
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3781
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-12-18 12:41 PM - Post#268835
In response to TheLine
Mike played 34 minutes against Nova, 27 against Miami.
That's more important than who's starting.
Agreed. Max is a senior and a leader, and has earned the right to start. As long as Mike is getting the minutes, that's what's key. I'll be stunned if Mike doesn't start next year.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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it's time 12-12-18 12:53 PM - Post#268839
In response to Jeff2sf
Jeff, I agree with what you're saying but don't disagree with Donahue back-ending Mike's minutes. Wouldn't there be more of a reason to be upset if Mike isn't out there to finish games?
And as you say, it's not like Donahue is playing a conventional bench. He goes mostly with the 7 guys he trusts the most, with guest appearances by several more so Mike's minutes aren't with a true 2nd team. I personally don't care who starts in that sort of rotation. Maybe it's better Max starts given his back - he gets early minutes while it's warmed up.
Add to it that Max is a poor FT shooter and Mike is a good one. Definitely don't want Max playing during bonus time. Get in his minutes early.
Edited by TheLine on 12-12-18 12:57 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: it's time 12-12-18 01:00 PM - Post#268840
In response to TheLine
Maybe it's better Max starts given his back - he gets early minutes while it's warmed up.
This is a good point I hadn't considered. Max came off the bench in the 2nd half right? is the theory that at that stage of the game he can't re-warm up for the 2nd half so might as well start him on the bench?
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8293
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-12-18 01:01 PM - Post#268841
In response to TheLine
Max has gotten MUCH better from the FT line. He is 69% this year, Wang is at 73% for context.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1902
Reg: 11-29-04
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12-12-18 01:17 PM - Post#268842
In response to Streamers
While Mike has played incredibly well, Max has too. I don't think it shows up in all of his stats, but he plays physically (never thought I'd say that when he was a frosh) and his passing has really surprised me. He had a few plays passing to the cutting guard which I never saw coming. He is looking like a QB out there.
Brodeur is doing a great job as well, but I feel (without any supporting data) that it started with Max.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Re: it's time 12-12-18 01:18 PM - Post#268844
In response to Jeff2sf
Maybe it's better Max starts given his back - he gets early minutes while it's warmed up.
This is a good point I hadn't considered. Max came off the bench in the 2nd half right? is the theory that at that stage of the game he can't re-warm up for the 2nd half so might as well start him on the bench?
I'd start him at both halves IF the back is an issue to give more time for warming up.
If it isn't an issue then I care more who finishes than who starts.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3589
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-12-18 01:23 PM - Post#268848
In response to TheLine
Mike is subpar on defense and Max excels at it. Mike is in the Caleb role and he came in for Max as first sub all last year. If Donahue wants to set the tone of every game with defense, he will stick with Max.
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besnoah
Masters Student
Posts: 803
Reg: 12-14-05
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12-12-18 01:26 PM - Post#268851
In response to PennFan10
It was interesting to see Donahue (very, very briefly) in the 2nd half use a lineup where Mike was the only big.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-12-18 01:28 PM - Post#268852
In response to PennFan10
Bingo. Of course, Jeff could make the same argument about Caleb last year. The great thing this year is that the guy playing Caleb’s role as first guy off the bench for Max is 6’10.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-12-18 01:29 PM - Post#268853
In response to PennFan10
and max is subpar on offense and Mike excels at it. The defense suffers, a little bit, and arguably not that much because one of aj and max, who are both 5s really, don't have to scamper around on the perimeter.
The offense becomes all sunshine and 3 point rainbows when max isn't there because A. mike's just a lot better, and B. Max doesn't get in the way.
Max may well be a top 8 center in this league, but he has the misfortune of being on AJ's team and his ideal position on this team is AJ's backup.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3589
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-12-18 01:37 PM - Post#268855
In response to Jeff2sf
Obviously SD disagrees with you. If you haven’t noticed the last two yeas has been defense first and piece together enough offense. Lots of examples to support that fact, not the least of which is Donahues starting lineups
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1902
Reg: 11-29-04
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12-12-18 01:58 PM - Post#268860
In response to PennFan10
There were a few plays where Wang ripped some rebounds under a crowded basket. While I wouldn't call him a physical player yet, any sign of him asserting himself physically is a VERY good development for his game as a Freshman. It is very rare for us to have Freshmen big men that are strong enough to impact a game physically. Brodeur is probably one of the best we've had as a Freshman in that respect.
I really enjoyed watching Wang off the ball. He seems to know what is going on, and he darts in and out between receiving a ball screen and cutting to the hoop. It is a real conundrum for whoever is guarding him whether to fight through the screen when he doesn't even have the ball. If they spend the energy, then he cuts to the hoop to receive the pass.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-12-18 01:58 PM - Post#268861
In response to PennFan10
We don't use "the coach disagrees with you" here. It's tautological and you're better than that. Everyone has their blind spots.
Besides, did Steve disagree with me in the 1st half but agreed with me in the 2nd half when Mike started?
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 365
Reg: 03-25-09
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12-12-18 02:02 PM - Post#268863
In response to Jeff2sf
why would steve change anything right now?
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-12-18 02:03 PM - Post#268865
In response to PennFan10
I like the approach Steve Donahue is taking and I’m fine with Max starting and Mike coming off the bench. In addition to Max being a better defender and more of a QB on offense, he also rebounds better on the defensive end, which helps early. I think they’ve got a good flow and both Max and Mike are playing about 50% mins.
As PF10 said this is definitely a nod to defense first. This is the same reason that we see Bryce Washington start the games rather than Jake because he is more athletic, bigger, and quicker staying in front of his man. But then for a calming influence with great play making Jake comes in and plays more mins overall. Bryce is playing 43% Jake 56%.
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13otto
Masters Student
Posts: 779
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
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it's time 12-12-18 02:05 PM - Post#268867
In response to Jeff2sf
We don't use "the coach disagrees with you" here. It's tautological and you're better than that. Everyone has their blind spots.
Besides, did Steve disagree with me in the 1st half but agreed with me in the 2nd half when Mike started?
Mike didn't start the second half. Max did, although Wang entered 43 seconds in, on an offensive possession.
Edited by 13otto on 12-12-18 02:09 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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