Dr. V
PhD Student
Posts: 1539
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-17-18 05:29 PM - Post#269308
Michigan is the other college team I follow and for which I root. I just read that a soph DT at Michigan is looking to transfer off the FB team, which would make him the 6th player from that class to transfer.
One would think that playing for Michigan would be any player's dream: a top flight school both athletically and academically, great facilities, exposure, bowl games etc. Yet various players have transferred out, including two several days right after Michigan beat Mich. St. in a signature win.
My point? No one is saying anything like or suggesting that Jim Harbaugh has "run then off the team." It is simply understood that in today's game, some significant number of players transfer for one or some combination of reasons including, for example, playing time, geographic or social or academic fit, homesickness etc.
Two players who were on our BB team last year decided to transfer. A number of posters on this board have in the past suggested or actually accused our coaches of having run players off of our BB team. A charitable way of characterizing such posts is that they were uninformed.
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AntiUngvar
Masters Student
Posts: 530
Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
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Re: Transfers
12-17-18 11:02 PM - Post#269331
In response to Dr. V
Jim Harbaugh's job is in real jeopardy, or have you not been informed about that, either?
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Tod Howard Hawks
Freshman
Posts: 64
Age: 79
Reg: 03-17-14
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12-18-18 06:35 PM - Post#269394
In response to AntiUngvar
Dr. V:
A couple of points:
First, you can't use the comparison of any colllege football squad (around 120 players, let'say) to any college basketball squad (around 15 players, let's say).
Second, you say Michigan football has had six players transfer this year. That's six out of 120, right? But under the aegis of Coach Engles, five players have left the team in the past 14 months. That's five out of 15. Well, the rate of loss is 1/3 for Columbia basketball, whereas the rate of loss for Michigan football is 3/60. Quite a difference, no?
Bottom Line: The buck, for any college sport, stops with the Head Coach of that sport.
Engles is currently the Head Coach of Columbia basketball, and something is still terribly wrong on the hardwoods of Morningside Heights.
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Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2175
Reg: 02-14-06
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12-18-18 08:33 PM - Post#269413
In response to Tod Howard Hawks
With all due respect to knowledgable Columbia basketball fan, Dr. V, he keeps missing the mark in his never ending campaign to blame everyone, but the head coach, Jim Engles, for the rapid decline and fall of the Columbia Men's Basketball Program during his tenure. After regularly glossing over the unbelievably weird player substitutions and lack of player development in Engles first two years, Dr. V now is calling the rest of us out for wondering how Engles could have been so out of touch that all but three of Columbia's frontcourt players either quit the team or transferred. Dr. V suggests that this is a modern players' phenomena, but that, of course, skips the obvious, namely that a head coach is supposed to recognize the obvious and compensate for the detrimental effects. Dr. V is arguing with himself when he suggest that Engles was faced with an inevitable wave of transfers. That's just not so. What is obvious to Dr. V now, should have been just as obvious to Engles before he lost nearly his whole front court to the combined transfer/attrition route. It continues to amaze me that he only recruited two eligible Division I players for this year's class. As the line goes, "what was he thinking." In conclusion, I assume that Engles is still around Morningside Heights, because he was given an expensive long-term contract and for no other good reason. I suspect that's the reality. Having said all that, I believe it is fair to say that every Columbia sports fan is rooting strongly for Engles to do a 180 degree turnaround this season and prove that he can be a winning coach.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2972
Reg: 03-02-08
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 12-18-18 10:59 PM - Post#269437
In response to Columbia 37P6
I think we need to recognize that something has clicked over the last three games. We have been playing well. So maybe Engles has the right guys on the floor and is starting to press the right buttons.
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AntiUngvar
Masters Student
Posts: 530
Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
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12-18-18 11:15 PM - Post#269438
In response to Chet Forte
Let's hope so, Chet; but if Engles has no patience for this sort of low level scrutiny, what would he do in Jim Harbaugh's shoes?
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Dr. V
PhD Student
Posts: 1539
Reg: 11-21-04
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Transfers
12-19-18 12:22 PM - Post#269468
In response to Tod Howard Hawks
Todd,
I think you may be mistaken about a number of things. To begin, D1 teams such as Michigan can have only 85, not 120 players (I think 120 is the number Ivy teams used to be able to have). Second, as I noted in my initial post, the 6 transfers were from a single class, i.e., today's soph class, not the entire team. A team such as Michigan brings in a class of about 24-25 a year, so 6 transfers means that it has lost about 25% to transfers in that class.
Columbia lost 2 players, roommates Faulds and Hansen, who weren't happy here to transferring. We carry about 16 players. That represents about one/eighth or half of what in my example Michigan lost.
37PG,
At the end of last season, our best or one of the two best players on our team was Meisner. He was the leading rebounder for most of the season in the Ivies and one of the best three-point shooters. Everybody was looking forward to his senior year and, as far as I've heard, no one was expecting him to decide to go pro during the summer. If it was our coaches' fault for not having been clairvoyant enough to have anticipated that, so be it, but then we must all be guilty for not accurately anticipating the future. Whatever, if we had Meisner this season, it is reasonable to expect that we'd have a rather different record.
It's been discussed on these boards before, so I'm not sure why it needs to be re-stated, but here goes again. Kyle Smith's regime left us with a a cupboard with not a whole lot in it. Who exactly are today's Maudo or Mullins or Isaac or Rosie in our upper classes?
I don't and haven't blamed anyone for anything. What I try to do is pay attention to what actually are facts and distinguish them from presumptions, suspicions, antipathies and just imaginings.
Edited by Dr. V on 12-19-18 12:42 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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AntiUngvar
Masters Student
Posts: 530
Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
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Re: Transfers
12-19-18 01:51 PM - Post#269476
In response to Dr. V
If you want to go to the mat on this subject, then at least take your head out of the sand so that we're all party to a fair fight.
Note, once again , seven individuals connected with the program have left in the past 400 days.
They are: Andrew Panayiotou; Jaron Faulds; Myles Hanson; Lukas Meisner; Shane Eberle; Jon Safir; and Jean Bain.
None of the above left due to graduation, poor grades or career ending injury. Why not visit with each of them, personally, and find out why- in the interest of, as you write, getting to the facts?
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