penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21086
Reg: 12-02-04
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12-28-18 09:46 AM - Post#270236
In response to dperry
Really interesting about Lost Peninsula. You have something similar with Point Roberts, WA. Sliver of land surrounded by BC. 49th parallel and all.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-28-18 10:31 AM - Post#270239
In response to penn nation
Don't know about Max. From Donahue's public comments post-NM it sounds like they are holding him out until Princeton. Based on that I doubt he plays. I agree we are not the same defensive team without him. Mike is a huge plus on the floor offensively but he is a liability on defense right now and Toledo is going to be the best offense we play.
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Condor
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-28-18 10:48 AM - Post#270241
In response to PennFan10
Player, Height, Weight, Starter/Backup, PPG, RPG
Sanford 6'4", 200 S 18.0 3.6
Navigato 6'8", 225 S 13.6 3.3
Willie Jackson 6'6", 215 S 11.3 10.3
Knapke 6'11", 245 S 10.3 6.3
M Jackson 6'0", 175 S 8.6 3.7
Darrington 6'1", 185 B 10.2 1.8
Edu 6'10", 215 B 4.5 4.2
Littleson 6'4", 200 B 3.5 1.4
Alderson 6'5", 205 B 2.3 1.1
Their two big guys, Knapke and Navigato, are more likely to take a 3 pt shot (both have shot well from there) than Willie Jackson. Navigato shoots 70% of his shots from the 3 and Knapke shoots 39% of his shots from the 3. It is only 3% for W. Jackson. Not surprisingly, W. Jackson is their leading rebounder. I assume Woods will be on their leading scorer, Sanford, and Goodman will be on M. Jackson/Darrington. The other matchups should be interesting. I wonder if Bryce will be guarding Navigato? Toledo looks solid at FT’s. The layoff total is 7 days for Penn and 10 days for Toledo. Will the Toledo student crowd be around for this holiday matchup? Ignoring the venue, this looks like a tough game for both teams.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Toledo 12-28-18 10:54 AM - Post#270243
In response to Condor
as it happens Mike is better than Max on offense by more than Max is better than Mike and as an added bonus, individual offense is worth more than defense so we're better off when Mike's on the floor.
Max is better than Jarrod so there's a drop off there but when you combine it all, the effect is probably neutral ish. It will obviously be a good thing when Max returns as a sub.
I just don't get how you all talk about the "drop off in defense" which did occur without noticing the "GIGANTIC LEAP" in offense which also occurred.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-28-18 11:05 AM - Post#270244
In response to Jeff2sf
Mike has a 128 ORAT on 25% usage. He's got a 28 PER and he's a jump shooter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
Unless he's personally escorting other team's players to the basket and fouling AJ to create interference, he can't possibly be negating his offense.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-28-18 11:46 AM - Post#270248
In response to Jeff2sf
Forest, meet trees....NO ONE said Mike isn't good on offense or that Max is close. Max doesn't try to score so that's a pretty low bar but good job on highlighting it. In context, what we are actually talking about is how to beat Toledo (see the name of the thread) and I believe its going to be a challenge getting into an offensive war with a team who is top 50 in offense, 4 of their starting 5 average double digit points (the fifth is 8.5) and have ORats that go 142, 126, 119, 117, 106. Oh, and don't forget they are top 20 in the country at shooting the 3 (40% ranked 15th).
As a result, I think the key to THIS game is going to be getting stops vs trading baskets. In that light, I'd like to see our best defensive team on the floor as much as possible.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-28-18 12:19 PM - Post#270252
In response to PennFan10
I don’t much care whether we lose 52-50 or 75-73. Difference is mike gives us the better chance to win 77-75
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-28-18 12:32 PM - Post#270253
In response to Jeff2sf
I hope you're right. The kid is playing well right now for sure. This is the game I am most worried about before Temple
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3615
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-28-18 01:24 PM - Post#270255
In response to PennFan10
To be clear on my end, I’m super psyched about Mike Wang and want to see him play a lot of minutes. I also think Max does help on defense and setting up offense. I think with him we have a better chance to beat Toledo than without. No commentary from me on Mike vs. Max in my statement.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-28-18 02:13 PM - Post#270259
In response to Mike Porter
The funny thing is there is no Mike vs Max. It's Mike AND Max. Max plays 20+ minutes and Mike plays 20+ minutes. We get the benefit of both. There is only one ball so we don't need 5 scorers on the floor at all times. Steve gets to play those guys situationally at times and for long stretches at other times. Since we are now decidedly playing 2 bigs all the time, there is 80 minutes to go around between AJ/Mike/Max/Jarrod as opposed to about 45 last year.
Mike and Max are very different players that bring different skill sets. We need them both.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-28-18 03:19 PM - Post#270262
In response to PennFan10
Just to pile on a bit here. Max brings more to the court than just defense - his rebounding and passing skills matter at both ends. Mike is improving as a rebounder, but not yet at Max's level as a passer except on the break as he has great court vision.
I'm still trying to sort out which frontcourt partner helps AJ's game more. I'm tempted to say Mike as he creates more space in the lane, but open to all opinions.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-28-18 03:55 PM - Post#270266
In response to Streamers
Exactly. I assume there is a reason Max has started every game for 2 years other than the coaches simply ignoring obvious stats like PER.
If we only believed the empiricists we would be KP 150 right now and hoping for a spot in the IL tourney with a chasm between us and HY.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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12-28-18 07:55 PM - Post#270278
In response to PennFan10
FWIW Mike's DRat (93.6) is in line with AJ's (92.1) and and Max's (92.4). There isn't a dropoff on the defensive end when Mike's on the floor based on the stats. I think Mike is doing a good job.
Best DRat on the team is Jake. My eyes say he's playing better on D than he was in previous years and has earned his minutes.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-28-18 09:05 PM - Post#270281
In response to TheLine
Mike is the worst defender of the guys who play 10+ minutes. As J2J points out, his offense makes up for a lot of that. He will be a better defender as he works on his body but right now every team throws the ball to the guy Mike is guarding. New Mexico did it, LaSalle did it, Villanova did it and Toledo will do it. His offense makes up for it and he should be out there, but to say he is doing a good job on defense for THIS team, is a stretch.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12480
Reg: 12-07-04
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Toledo 12-28-18 11:49 PM - Post#270283
In response to PennFan10
I hope you're right. The kid is playing well right now for sure. This is the game I am most worried about before Temple
I sure hope the team isn't looking at it like this. We've got 2 pretty large games before Temple and after Monmouth...
Guess it's time to buy my annual tickets to the hangar. I assume i won't be alone? I take over a new house on Friday, so needless to say, my wife isn't so pleased.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-29-18 02:12 PM - Post#270293
In response to Mike Porter
Vegas has game Penn +5
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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12-29-18 02:29 PM - Post#270295
In response to PennFan10
Interesting story about Mike Wang and Toledo's AJ Edu playing against each other in last summer's Asian U18 tournament.
https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/ut/2018/12/28/ u...
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-29-18 03:05 PM - Post#270299
In response to TheLine
Max did not make the trip.
Gotta box out
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Toledo 12-29-18 03:10 PM - Post#270301
In response to 91Quake
Sloppy start on offense starting with a botched dunk by AJ.
Defense has been solid other than Bryce caught napping on a backdoor.
Toledo looks as good as advertised.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2125
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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12-29-18 03:10 PM - Post#270302
In response to 91Quake
Gotta make shots, too.
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