PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3578
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-02-19 11:22 AM - Post#270804
Never too early to get this thread started.
KP has us as a 1 pt dog on the road.
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AntiUngvar
Masters Student
Posts: 530
Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
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Re: @Princeton 01-02-19 04:27 PM - Post#270831
In response to PennFan10
Somebody's got to contribute to my man's thread- may as well be me! The question is, which appears to be a more likely three game streak of activity: The University of Pennsylvania losing three consecutive games to Division-1 opponents; or Princeton University losing three straight to Penn?
I go with the latter as being the more likely scenario to occur. This core group of Penn players has known success at Jadwin- winning there fairly easily in 2018; and losing, in overtime, the year before. They've also converted on 80% of FTAs at Jadwin in these two most recent meetings between the two schools. Penn's got to feel a greater urgency about this game, too, with Princeton still perhaps bowing to the applause related to the Arizona State win. Rothschild should play; and there's little downside to at least letting Wang attempt to do so; since Penn's very next game is a full seven days later- at home, versus Princeton. That's just my humble/unsolicited opinion.
Edited by AntiUngvar on 01-02-19 04:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3578
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-02-19 04:35 PM - Post#270833
In response to AntiUngvar
https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/01/landa u-penn-...
The DP irked about BTB vs Princeton.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: @Princeton 01-02-19 04:40 PM - Post#270835
In response to PennFan10
Very scary game to me. Would have been favored by a couple points a week ago, but not anymore. In addition to our own troubles, when you look at the individual matchups Llewellyn makes things look a lot tougher then they would have seemed a month ago. Cannady and Stephens are wonderful players, but with our defenders I think we’d have the options necessary to control them. Llewellyn means We have fewer choices with the defensive matchups.
All that said, I have a lot of faith in our coaching and makeup. I think we’ll be ready and compete, regardless of the status of Max, Mike, and Tyler.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-02-19 04:45 PM - Post#270838
In response to SomeGuy
i'd have thought we'd have our players prepared for Monmouth too but obviously that didn't happen. The season has a chance to go off the rails very quickly with these next two games. Need Wang back.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2685
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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01-02-19 05:06 PM - Post#270842
In response to PennFan10
The tournament strikes again, this time leading to the League's best rivalry being played not only in the first weeks of January to open the season, but while students are on break. As an opponent of the tournament, I complained that the regular season was being diminished. I never envisioned that it would be so to this extent.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12480
Reg: 12-07-04
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01-02-19 05:53 PM - Post#270846
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
It has been this way for this game for years and years...The alternative was the last game of the year during spring break which was no better. Obviously they're trying to avoid the 3 games in 5 days situation, and hopefully a new exam schedule fixes this issue next year.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21081
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-02-19 05:56 PM - Post#270847
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
For this particular rivalry the peculiarity of Princeton's academic schedule is solely to blame for the unfortunate scheduling.
This will, thankfully, soon become a thing of the past as Princeton is finally adopting a different academic schedule.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-02-19 06:08 PM - Post#270854
In response to penn nation
i've supported the tournament for a while now. 1 thing I wasn't worried about but couldn't rule out either was the idea that the regular season would be rendered meaningless.
This has basically proven to be the opposite. I'm terrified of not making the final four such that the only Princeton games where I clearly was more stoked/worried for were the playoff games.
They've messed up a lot with this tournament, but limiting it to four teams has been nothing short of brilliant.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4894
Reg: 02-04-06
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01-02-19 06:52 PM - Post#270859
In response to Jeff2sf
Obviously Princeton's academic schedule is not responsible for the back-to-back setup (or for the two teams playing each other before any other opponents), as the teams never played back-to-back in all the many years of that schedule. The folly is entirely to blame for that.
I know that at least some of the other travel partners always started the season with a back-to-back and I always used to pity them for that. The dramatic, natural rivalry of that last Tuesday of the season was pretty compelling.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21081
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-02-19 07:10 PM - Post#270860
In response to SRP
Princeton’s peculiar schedule has been the ONLY reason there have been P-P games of recent vintage that have been scheduled during student breaks.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-02-19 07:19 PM - Post#270862
In response to Jeff2sf
I agree with Jeff on this. The regular season hasn’t been diminished — the historic OOC season suggests this could be a very competitive year. While the travel partner games at the start may be a little weird, it raises the possibility that one of the Ps or Yale/Brown starts out 0-2 and in a big hole compared to one of the other 4 teams competing for 5 spots. While a few weeks ago it looked like there were 3 locks for the tourney, i’m less certain there are any locks now. It isn’t inconceivable for Yale or Penn to get swept and end up in a big hole we didn’t expect.
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AntiUngvar
Masters Student
Posts: 530
Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
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01-02-19 07:30 PM - Post#270864
In response to SomeGuy
If you see the next game as "scary", prepare yourself for 15 more scares to follow.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3988
Reg: 11-23-04
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@Princeton 01-02-19 10:44 PM - Post#270924
In response to SRP
Not some of the other Ivy travel partners, all of them, and during the winter break for most.
Edited by Old Bear on 01-02-19 10:46 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-03-19 10:20 AM - Post#270964
In response to AntiUngvar
If you see the next game as "scary", prepare yourself for 15 more scares to follow.
yeah, that's exactly the point.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4350
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-03-19 11:08 AM - Post#270970
In response to Jeff2sf
A lot of panic here. All the last game and a half taught us is that we are not nearly as good a team without Max and Mike. We were actually ahead of Toledo when Mike went down. I'm not saying we win that game, but we were doing ok with Mike on the floor even though we didn't have Max.
So we know now that without at least one of them on the court we are a different team. The crucial question then is where do either or both of them stand relative to our Saturday showdown with Princeton? Importantly - if one or both aren't ready, will they be back in time for the 2nd game?
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-03-19 11:25 AM - Post#270973
In response to AsiaSunset
It feels less like panic and more like disappointment that the injuries have significantly depleted what we thought was a pretty deep team. It is also the realization that SD will need to make adjustments if he needs more from Jarrod and Eddie. This coming on the heels of the big wins against Miami and Nova.
This team has proven its resiliency and ability to adapt. I remain optimistic. All 3 of the DL guys will be back soon enough to be factors in league play.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4894
Reg: 02-04-06
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Re: @Princeton 01-03-19 02:57 PM - Post#271002
In response to Old Bear
Thank you for confirming that the Penn posters' obsessive need to denigrate Princeton has again led them astray.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1116
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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Re: @Princeton 01-03-19 10:12 PM - Post#271045
In response to SRP
The lesson of the last two games is that the talent drops off sharply after the top five.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21081
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: @Princeton 01-03-19 10:23 PM - Post#271046
In response to UPIA1968
After 7 is when we get in serious trouble.
AJ, Max, Mike, Jake, Anthony, Devon and Bryce.
After that the dropoff is pretty drastic.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23195
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-03-19 10:28 PM - Post#271048
In response to penn nation
Anthony?
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21081
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-03-19 10:31 PM - Post#271049
In response to 10Q
Carmelo on the brain?
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23195
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-04-19 08:11 AM - Post#271059
In response to penn nation
I was thinking Arnolie.
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JDP
Masters Student
Posts: 559
Reg: 11-23-04
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@Princeton 01-04-19 09:11 AM - Post#271062
In response to 10Q
I would expect the on court efficiency drop off to be pretty dramatic on any team if that team did not have the starter and primary sub - especially when the starter is a senior leader and the sub is in the conversations for rookie of the year ... both players have the ability to make the other four on the court better players.
A second perspective would be that you have to at least include Ryan in your list to say we are 8 deep ... others may add Jelani to make it 9 ... some may add Tyler to make it 10. I think on any team when you get to the 10th .. 11th .. 12th option you will get a drop off.
That said, I believe Steve has shown a great ability to take players who are seemingly out of sync with the system and make them productive contributors by Feb / March ...I think the players on the team have also taken it upon themselves to put in the effort to riase their games to higher levek - think back to Caleb or Jake at the start of last season and where did they end up
Edited by JDP on 01-04-19 09:15 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3044
Reg: 10-20-14
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01-04-19 09:36 AM - Post#271063
In response to JDP
The DP looks at three questions heading into Saturday's games.
https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/01/penn- mens-ba...
1 - Injuries
Rothschild and Wang are mentioned for Penn. Stephens for Princeton. No mention about any lingering problems with Silpe after he got whacked in the nose during the Monmouth game.
2 - Momentum
3 - Rookies
Washington and Wang for Penn. Llewellyn for Princeton. No mention of the difficulties of shooting in Jadwin, which may pose a problem for Washington and Wang (if he is available).
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2125
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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01-04-19 05:09 PM - Post#271122
In response to rbg
Good news. Just got the Penn game notes, and Max is listed as a probable starter tomorrow. Also, Wang is not listed as "out". I would imagine he's questionable at this point, but would love to be surprised by his appearance.
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Cvonvorys
Postdoc
Posts: 4438
Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
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@Princeton 01-04-19 05:31 PM - Post#271123
In response to weinhauers_ghost
By the way, it's Youth Night at Jadwin. Free admission for kids 12 and under (their words... I would have said younger) and a free pencil pouch for the first 500 fans.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1150
Reg: 07-28-07
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01-04-19 05:36 PM - Post#271124
In response to Cvonvorys
So if I go to the women's game too (starts at 2), maybe I can get a pencil pouch?
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4350
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-04-19 06:38 PM - Post#271128
In response to weinhauers_ghost
They held off so long on the game notes that I assume they were waiting to see if Max made it to practice. Looks like he probably did. Not sure what Mike’s status is but game notes in the Ivies aren’t 100% reliable
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-04-19 09:54 PM - Post#271136
In response to AsiaSunset
I get the sense Max fought hard to suit up for this. We will know pretty quickly if he is mobile enough to be effective. I’m also convinced Mike needs another week at least based on what my eyes told me.
Penn is -2 at the moment. More evidence Vegas does not follow the injury reports.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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@Princeton 01-04-19 10:12 PM - Post#271137
In response to Streamers
More probable they do and based on it they don't think Mike is likely to play.
Getting Max back is nice but doesn't make up for Mike.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-04-19 11:02 PM - Post#271140
In response to TheLine
If they had a clue, penn would not have been -14 against Monmouth. My friend out there who knows the big books says they really do not follow the injuries that closely and do not know the impact when they do.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2125
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Re: @Princeton 01-04-19 11:49 PM - Post#271143
In response to TheLine
More probable they do and based on it they don't think Mike is likely to play.
Getting Max back is nice but doesn't make up for Mike.
I think you underrate Max's value. He's a deft passer, a solid post defender and works very well in concert with AJ. His presence resolves some of the defensive and floor spacing problems we saw when we tried to play four guards plus AJ.
I'm hoping Mike can go tomorrow too, but I'm not optimistic.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: @Princeton 01-05-19 10:33 AM - Post#271159
In response to weinhauers_ghost
With all the understandable focus on this board and PU’s on the guard matchups, I’m not convinced that will be the difference in this game. Cannady will get his, but I think we have enough quickness in the backcourt to keep the PU guards from completely going off, especially if Stephens is not at full speed. I’m more concerned about PU frontcourt depth. Assuming we do not see Wang, and Max plays no more than 25 minutes, they can throw a bunch of bigs out there like Gadson and Desrosiers (is Much hurt?) who can get our frontcourt into foul trouble.
On a related note, I really hope Tyler is available along with Jarrod to give us some minutes defensively since I’ve given up on Scott for now.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2125
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Re: @Princeton 01-05-19 10:40 AM - Post#271161
In response to Streamers
Game notes list Hamilton as out. I would really like to see Scott step up and be productive, but I suspect we are more likely to see Kuba out there at this point, based on recent history.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Re: @Princeton 01-05-19 10:53 AM - Post#271162
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Max is one of the 5 guys who have proven to be useful parts. Useful parts are important to have. Maybe that's enough against Princeton, I don't know.
Mike is another level entirely. It's backed up by the numbers or eye test. Spend a game focusing on him when he is back and 100%. He's a huge matchup problem on the offensive end because he's big, never stops moving, gets into good spaces on the court, shoots the ball well and doesn't turn the ball over. He's just as tenacious on the defensive end as he is on the offensive end.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2125
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Re: @Princeton 01-05-19 11:12 AM - Post#271163
In response to TheLine
One of the keys for us is that Goodman simply has to play better than he has in the past three games.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4350
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: @Princeton 01-05-19 11:34 AM - Post#271164
In response to TheLine
Having one or both available should really help. I thought Simmons did ok against Monmouth but Max is a stronger defender and a clever passer (although occasionally too clever). And if Mike is out there as well, he adds a dimension that makes the offense much more difficult to defend. Plus they give us 10 more frontcourt fouls and offer A J more opportunities to get some rest.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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01-05-19 11:43 AM - Post#271165
In response to AsiaSunset
I thought Dev was going to be more than a useful part but his game suffers against better teams when he has to carry the team. Right now only AJ and Mike can carry the team.
Sure, having Max available will help. Just not sure it's enough.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2125
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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01-05-19 12:15 PM - Post#271168
In response to TheLine
This would be a great game for Goodman to summon his inner Foreman. Woods has been in touch with his for most of the season.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12480
Reg: 12-07-04
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01-05-19 01:16 PM - Post#271171
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Can’t wait to see what my son wants to do with his Princeton pencil pouch. Lol. This is going to be a battle. I ordered through Princeton a few days ago and I’m in the 200s for the first time in years so it sounds like the public is coming out.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1123
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-05-19 03:00 PM - Post#271186
In response to Quakers03
Mike Wang taking part in a drill shooting and moving that was just posted 1/2 hr ago on the twitter machine. Looked to be comfortable and moving just fine. No sign of Max but you could only see about 5 guys.
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1st UP
Sophomore
Posts: 185
Loc: Denver
Reg: 11-11-09
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01-05-19 03:05 PM - Post#271187
In response to 91Quake
Caption says: "Getting some final shots up before the short trip to Princeton. #WhÄnau"
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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01-05-19 03:49 PM - Post#271209
In response to 1st UP
well that looks promising
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