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Username Post: Eagles        (Topic#22422)
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
Re: Eagles
01-14-19 06:46 PM - Post#272598    
    In response to 13otto

But if Wentz had the healthier defense that Nick did by the end, they would have been winning more too. Is it Carson's fault that Jim Schwartz doesn't know how to defend third/forth and long? It cost them at least two regular season games and then yesterday too. Nick was fine the last few games, but unless you really think his overall team magic will consistently prevail, I don't think this is a close contest. Carson can do too many things that Nick can't. Next year is the tell-all year with Carson and health, but if you can sign him at a discount thanks to the injuries, even better.

Look, there is no denying that the team rallies around Foles for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean the same can't work for Carson. He is the future...not BDN. I will, however, be forever grateful to that man and what he brought to us. He lifted a massive weight off of this city's shoulders and he deserves a statue.

 
dperry 
Postdoc
Posts: 2211
dperry
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
Re: Eagles
01-14-19 10:08 PM - Post#272623    
    In response to Quakers03

a. I love you too, Otto, and if your initial sentence about Wentz is a summary of what actually happened (i.e., if Foles isn't backing him up last year, they don't win), I am in complete agreement. If it's meant as a hypothetical (i.e., they wouldn't have won last year with Wentz in the playoffs), sorry, but I think there's a pretty good chance that they end up crushing the Falcons, still beat the Vikes handily, and have at least as good a chance of outdueling Brady as they did anyway. Check this year's stats: Wentz did better than Foles n several categories and wasn't significantly worse anywhere, which ain't bad for a guy who was coming off tearing two knee ligaments and had a different receiving corps every week. As it is, we are $12 million over the cap this offseason (and all praise to Roseman for getting it down to that; it was more like $30 mil in the preseason); at least one beloved person is going to have to go, and the most obvious target is the guy who's going to make $20 mil if they pick up his option. Yes, it must be admitted that at this point, Wentz's health is a gamble, but you have to take gambles to achieve greatness (not to mention that Foles turns 30 in six days), and the fact is, he has done things, particularly last year, that Foles simply can't do. Also, if we're talking about what-ifs, it occurred to me today that there is a major irony about the legend of St. Nick; the biggest factor in creating it may have been a bad throw. If Keanu Neal makes that interception for the Falcons last year instead of kicking it to Torrey Smith, the Eagles don't steal three at the end of the half, there's a pretty strong chance that we don't parade down Broad Street, and we're all talking about how Foles once again didn't live up to what he did at the start of his career.

Don't get me wrong: I greatly respect and admire Nick Foles. He's a good man (although so is Wentz, by the way), he's proved to be an excellent leader under pressure, and he was the centerpiece of a story of which the bards will sing for as long as football and Philadelphia exist. He deserves to have a statue outside of the Linc, and I will certainly greet him warmly every time he returns to Philly. However, an superior backup QB is a luxury that you can not afford for very long in today's NFL, not to mention that Foles deserves a chance to prove that he can make it as a starter somewhere else. A decision has to be made, and judging from the way both Foles and Pederson were talking yesterday, it's likely that it already has been made.

b.) To TigerFan and GoPennGo, I didn't say that I didn't enjoy the way the end of the season turned out (although the last two games probably took another three or four weeks off my life. ), I was not advocating that they "tank," and even if I was, I would never expect anyone in the organization to actually go along with it. I would have liked to win again this year, both to become the first team to have repeated in a while and to get some of the other NFC East fans to really shut up. However, with all the injuries and the good teams they would have to go through, that was not a realistic outcome, and anyway, Kansas City has always been my second favorite team, so I can live with the way things happened.
What I really want is to not have another one-and-done championship team in this town. I want to bring Mr. Lombardi back two or three more times in the next ten years, and while I'm still optimistic about that possibility, one has to say that this season has at least slightly decreased the chances of that happening. While the injuries obviously were a big factor, there are also real problems that need to be fixed. The offensive line is going to need a lot of work: Peters is through, Kelce is seriously talking about retiring, and Brooks just blew out his Achilles. If Mailata is what he's cracked up to be, he'll fill one of those slots, but that still leaves a couple more, and if you really are worried about Wentz's health, this is priority #1. Also, it would be nice to have a secondary that didn't look like a piece of Swiss cheese, and it would be great to have a blue chip running back, particularly since Sproles is also done, and I'm not optimistic that Ajayi will ever get back to the level he was at last year. Also, the DL will probably need at least one replacement, and between injuries and the cap they'll probably need another receiver as well. They actually cost themselves six spots by making the playoffs, since they would have finished behind the Steelers and would have lost (or won, depending on how you want to look at it ) the tiebreaker with the Titans. 18 to 24 is a significant jump, particularly in a year in which you have a lot of draft picks and might want to package a couple to make a move. Now, the worst outcome would have been to have won this game, beaten the Rams again (which given that at least 40% of the fans would have been ours, was a distinct possibility), and then lost a close game to the Chiefs or Pats; they might have deceived themselves into thinking that it was all about the injuries and that they could stand pat. This way, they at least are forced to recognize that there are problems. However, missing the cut would have really made that obvious, and left them with a better chance of solving most of them for next year. While you may disagree, I don't think it's delusional.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
13otto 
Masters Student
Posts: 779
13otto
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Eagles
01-15-19 11:20 AM - Post#272645    
    In response to dperry

It's not all about the stats. This team raises its level of play with Nick Foles at quarterback. And Foles plays very well in the clutch. He had 8 must-win games over the past 13 months (3 playoff games last season, 3 regular-season games this season, and 2 more playoff games this season, of which the Eagles were the underdog in 7 of them) of which he played very well and won 7 of them. Then I read your “One certainly hopes that this game puts the Carson vs. Nick debate to bed” and “From the long-term perspective, making the playoffs this year was something of a waste” comments, which really got me fired up.

Perhaps Wentz would have led the Eagles to a title last season. But perhaps not. With 12 playoff teams, the best team doesn’t always win. But there’s no denying that Wentz would not have done what Foles did after taking over in week 15 this year. And Foles almost pulled out another this past weekend. If Jeffery catches that pass, which he does over 90% of the time, I suspect the Eagles pull that one out and we’re not having this discussion.
http://www.letsgoquakers.com/


 
Streamers 
Professor
Posts: 8141
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
01-15-19 11:37 AM - Post#272646    
    In response to 13otto

This debate is to be expected, I suppose, but not realistic. As someone noted above, it would take a 'stupid' offer involving 3 top 40 picks or better to pry Wentz from the Eagles. That's not going to happen. Neither is carrying them both. Remember, they like Sundfeld as the backup.

Foles is a FA as we speak. He will start for someone else next year. I just hope it is not the Giants. He's not the answer there.

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 23194

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
01-15-19 12:00 PM - Post#272653    
    In response to Streamers

I'm hoping the Dolphins don't enter this sweepstakes.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
01-15-19 04:35 PM - Post#272681    
    In response to 10Q

I actually think Nick would do quite well with Shurmur and the weapons the Giants have.

I heard they are bringing back Mike Groh. Weird...

 
OldBig5 
Masters Student
Posts: 639

Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
01-16-19 09:12 PM - Post#272794    
    In response to Quakers03

  • Quakers03 Said:
I actually think Nick would do quite well with Shurmur and the weapons the Giants have.

I heard they are bringing back Mike Groh. Weird...



People were ready to give up on Frank Reich as coordinator after his first year also. And Doug for that matter. I think he showed he could adjust some as the year went on. Next year will be critical for him. Don't forget that it's Doug calling the plays for the most part.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
Eagles
01-17-19 02:53 PM - Post#272824    
    In response to OldBig5

I had heard that they weren't happy with him...Guess it was FakeNews. They certainly didn't rush to go get Defelippo...

 
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