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Username Post: Given the clear emergence of the Brown Bears, does Columbia have any shot a        (Topic#22435)
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
01-09-19 11:55 AM - Post#271838    

I look forward to hearing from the regular, less regular and irregular contributors on the following:
I, for one, am sold on the Brown Bears men's bball team- they'll win 7 to a dozen Ivy games, and finish in the top four of the league standings. That posted, my fundamental concern is as follows- does Columbia have even a remote shot of joining them there; or are the Lions, to use the words of one of our UPenn affiliates, simply a dead horse?
We know the IL is strong; but no team is perfect, and no team will 14 league games. So, to finish fourth, a .500 finish would appear to be a minimal requirement. Can Columbia win one-half of their team's leagues? YES; but it won't come about as a result of SEVEN wins at Levien Gym; and there's the rub: to entertain any notion of extending the season, past March 9, Columbia MUST win, at minimum, one league road game. So, do the Lions have it in them to win once away during the next 60 days, a place where they've lost 13 straight IL games dating back to January, 2017? Would it be reasonable to imagine that Jim Engles has learned anything from the 28 road losses he's endured during his brief time at Columbia?????.... From any of the second half meltdowns- this season: at Fordham, at Rutgers, and at Binghamton; or from the past season: at UConn, at Albany, at CORNELL, or at YALE? As Tod Hawks has written, "I've seen this movie before"- Columbia leads through twenty minutes of play; opponents make adjustments; Engles is caught flat footed; resultant narrow Columbia defeat ensues; or, in the rarest instance, an ESPN Play of the Day from Stefanini salvages the situation. So while I do look forward to the league season, there is an unmistakable sense of dread for me to deal with, too. More importantly, how do YOU see it?


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1687

Reg: 02-14-06
01-09-19 12:32 PM - Post#271844    
    In response to AntiUngvar

Brilliantly constructed question and I am tempted to set aside the needs of my clients and spend the remainder of the day trying to respond. However, sometimes we have to fight temptation, so I would say, in brief, my answer is that Columbia has certainly improved in the last few games, and if that improvement continues, I believe the Lions could earn a playoff spot. As for Engles, his record the last 2-1/2 years speaks for itself, but he seems to be getting it now, so we all need to support him 100% going into the Ivy League season.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2328

Reg: 03-02-08
01-09-19 01:15 PM - Post#271846    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Despite the losses, the team that went to OT against Rutgers and played BC tough, both on the road, has demonstrated that we have enough talent to be competitive in all of our games. If he continues to improve, Tape can be one of the best front court players in the IL. And Brumant is certainly a credible front court player. While I would rather see Stef at SG instead of at PG, he is a talented, tough and take no prisoners sort of guy who can rise to the occasion. Adlesh off the bench is a tremendous three point shooter. So here are the question marks: is Jake going to be a credible third option; is Nweke going to hit a roadblock; is Bibbs ever going to become a contributor; is Maka ready for prime time on both ends of the court (he can score but can he defend); and will Engles show continued improvement as a game manager?


 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
01-09-19 02:59 PM - Post#271855    
    In response to Chet Forte

Gentlemen: Thanks for your commentary. I'll take your suggestions, re: fan behavior modification under advisement; I simply hope these CU kids get something positive out of this season & overall basketball experience, given all of the hard work and time invested.


 
rbg 
PhD Student
Posts: 1819

Reg: 10-20-14
01-10-19 09:52 AM - Post#271930    
    In response to AntiUngvar

Right now, the Lions should make sure that they do everything they can with Cornell before they welcome the P's at the beginning of February.

With the loss of Gettings, Cornell is not as good as last year. However, they still have Matt Morgan, who is capable of putting up 30+ on any given night, have an improved Josh Warren and are playing much better three point defense.

Last year, Columbia crushed Cornell at home and really had the Big Red on the ropes, but gave it back one week later. If Columbia has any hopes of the #4 spot, they probably need to sweep the two Saturday games.

 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
01-10-19 10:45 AM - Post#271939    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

  • Columbia 37P6 Said:
I am tempted to set aside the needs of my clients and spend the remainder of the day trying to respond.


Just let your clients know that it's Elmira Week at Columbia- they'll understand, I'm sure!


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1687

Reg: 02-14-06
01-10-19 12:56 PM - Post#271960    
    In response to AntiUngvar

I tried to do just that, but none of my clients seem to have heard of Elmira College, or even Elmira, New York. Meanwhile, I note the wisdom of rbg's comment regarding the importance of Columbia sweeping Cornell. He's obviously correct that if Columbia has any hope of capturing the #4 playoff spot, it better win both games against Cornell. A split probably ends the Lion's chances of making the playoff, while a double loss effectively knocks us out.

 
mountainred 
Senior
Posts: 351

Age: 52
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
01-10-19 02:20 PM - Post#271969    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

For my money, both Cornell and Columbia have odds of "anything can happen, but don't count on it" for making the ILT. And, yeah, a sweep of their travel partner is a necessity for either one.

 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
01-10-19 03:27 PM - Post#271982    
    In response to mountainred

Yes. A sweep with still plenty of work to be done in it's wake.


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4908

Reg: 11-22-04
01-11-19 02:33 PM - Post#272128    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

While every year is different, and 6-8 probably won’t get you in this year, I would caution against the attitude that you have to start 2-0.

Cornell started 0-3 last year (and within a point of 0-4) and still made it. The year before Penn started 0-6. Obviously our attitude as fans can be different from that of the team, but I prefer to avoid the assumption that an early game is a must win — I think it can be detrimental to the team going forward if they lose the game.

Obviously it is better to sweep Cornell that not to. But going 1-1 or 0-2 isn’t the end of the world. Find a way to 8 wins.

 
mountainred 
Senior
Posts: 351

Age: 52
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
01-11-19 02:47 PM - Post#272129    
    In response to SomeGuy

  • SomeGuy Said:
While every year is different, and 6-8 probably won’t get you in this year, I would caution against the attitude that you have to start 2-0.

Cornell started 0-3 last year (and within a point of 0-4) and still made it. The year before Penn started 0-6. Obviously our attitude as fans can be different from that of the team, but I prefer to avoid the assumption that an early game is a must win — I think it can be detrimental to the team going forward if they lose the game.

Obviously it is better to sweep Cornell that not to. But going 1-1 or 0-2 isn’t the end of the world. Find a way to 8 wins.



Forgot about Penn coming back from 0-6. Still, the computers are pretty consistent that the Lions and the Red are starting league play as teams 7 and 8. If you can't get two wins there, it is going to be very hard to get to eight.

Both teams should play out the season though, just in case.

 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
Given the clear emergence of the Brown Bears, does Columbia have any shot a
01-11-19 05:59 PM - Post#272136    
    In response to mountainred

No, let's NOT forget UPenn coming back from 0-6 in '17.
It's more the case that SomeGuy needs to do a much better job of homework on the subject before posting- his school had a very good non-conference record that season with wins over Robert Morris, Lafayette, Drexel, Fairfield and LaSalle. Those early wins served the Penn kids wel, when they hit that 0-6 IL mark; for they KNEW they could still win games and they proceeded to go on and demonstrate just that.
Similarly, last season's Cornell team had some impressive, early, non-conference victories against
Binghamton, Duquesne, Lafayette, Longwood and Toledo- SomeGuy may not remember much, but I'm willing to bet he does remember Toledo (certainly Steve Donahue remembers Toledo only too well). So Cornell got off to a confidence building start last year; and when their IL season started with 3 losses, they weren't so much phased by it. Thanks in part to their November and December successes; and having Stone Gettings and Matt Morgan as first and second options,
they (not so surprisingly) went on to claim a spot in the March, 2018 Palestra tourny. We don't need a rocket scientist to explain to us that there's always a viable path to New Haven in March as long as the calendar still shows an early February date.
But when your pre-Christmas game results have not been what you had in mind, then going on to lose your initial IL contests, too, will usually only and regrettably confirm for you, that your team's not one of the league's four best.


Edited by AntiUngvar on 01-11-19 06:27 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4908

Reg: 11-22-04
01-11-19 11:45 PM - Post#272149    
    In response to mountainred

Even at the end of last year, the computers had Cornell well behind where Columbia is right now. The league wasn’t as good, so it was possible for the 4th place team to be 265 in the country, but that was still significantly behind Princeton and Columbia. So the computer numbers are meaningful, but they don’t tell the whole story.

As a Penn fan, though, it’s fine with me if you guys want to give up and skip the games!

Should be a fun year — my prediction is that everyone loses at least 3 league games.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4908

Reg: 11-22-04
the clear emergence of the Brown Bears, does Columbia have any shot a
01-11-19 11:49 PM - Post#272150    
    In response to AntiUngvar

For Cornell last year, I think the key was the tune up against Central Pennsylvania College right before the Ivy season.

 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
Re: the clear emergence of the Brown Bears, does Columbia have any shot a
01-12-19 01:20 AM - Post#272155    
    In response to SomeGuy

And you're certainly entitled to thinking that!


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2328

Reg: 03-02-08
01-12-19 08:45 AM - Post#272162    
    In response to AntiUngvar

I frankly bemoan the dire outlook of some of my fellow Lions. Despite losing our two best players in Smith and Meisner we have been on an upward trajectory against some quality opponents, and on the road to boot. Tape and Brumant have shown enormous improvement and are a formidable front court combination. Tape in particular is a potential revelation in terms of his length and athleticism. Nweke is very promising. Stef is a gutty and talented guy who has sacrificed his scoring to move to the point. Adlesh is one of the deadliest three point shooters in the country. To be sure we need Killingsworth to be more assertive and Bibbs to show why he was such a promising recruit. I also like Maka Ellis for his scoring potential. And Engles has become a better game manager. So we have the ability to be competitive against all of our opponents.


 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
Given the clear emergence of the Brown Bears, does Columbia have any shot a
01-12-19 11:39 AM - Post#272174    
    In response to Chet Forte

Chet,
These aren't even Columbia people you're referencing. They're obviously entitled to their points of view; then again, NOBODY wrote anything to them remotely suggesting any benefit to a school's not playing out the entire 14 game season. This Guy invariably looks to make things up, sprinkling in a half truth in alternating sentences as he goes along. He should, in fact, really look to post on the Penn page; though I suppose they know him only too well over there.


Edited by AntiUngvar on 01-12-19 12:00 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
rbg 
PhD Student
Posts: 1819

Reg: 10-20-14
01-12-19 12:26 PM - Post#272178    
    In response to AntiUngvar

Yes, 2017 Penn and 2018 Cornell show that losing the first few is not the end of the world.

Looking at KP, Columbia is favored in 2 league home games and they are only a 1 to 7 point underdog in the other 5 games. On the road, they are within 3 to 7 point underdogs in 3 of the 7 games. With an improving team and the assorted ups & downs each team will face during the conference season, it is certainly understandable to think that the Lions have a chance to get to the #4 spot by year's end (no matter if you are pro or less pro Engles).

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2328

Reg: 03-02-08
01-12-19 12:53 PM - Post#272180    
    In response to rbg

I think the big open question is the continued emergence of Tape. He went to a very small private high school in the south and is a true under the radar type of guy who did not have a year of seasoning at the New England preps. It was always obvious that he had unusual athletic ability for a player who is a true 6’10”, but his game was undeveloped and he could not stay out of foul trouble. If he continues to progress he will be a real matchup problem for other teams.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1654

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
01-12-19 01:40 PM - Post#272185    
    In response to Chet Forte

Tape has clearly developed nicely and having a real presence inside is great for the Lions.

I've been noticing that the league seems to be improving generally in that regard. Princeton's Aririzugoh, Dartmouth's Knight, Yale's Atkinson, and Harvard's Lewis play more like 5's than 4's and are effective. Brodeur plays more like a 4, but with Rothschild and Wang Penn can have 2 effective bigs on the floor. Brown plays with Choh (a 4) and has more traditional bigs in DeWolfe and Fuller. If Cornell had Gettings, I'd put him in this discussion as well, although he plays like a 4 as well.

Not sure if this is a step up in due diligence in recruiting or whether the league is finally competitive when recruiting for size.





 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2328

Reg: 03-02-08
01-12-19 01:44 PM - Post#272186    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Good point. Tape runs the court like a man who is 6’4” and not 6’10”. He also looks good in the high post.


 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
01-12-19 03:29 PM - Post#272215    
    In response to Chet Forte

All points duly noted;
and it's Tapé, Tapé, Tapé, Tapé............Tapé


 
Tod Howard Hawks 
Freshman
Posts: 39

Age: 75
Reg: 03-17-14
01-12-19 04:08 PM - Post#272245    
    In response to AntiUngvar

I've just finished watching the first half against Elmira. I've already written that even if Columbia scorches Elmira by 30, it will mean nothing. Columbia is already up by 20. Let's see how the Lions due against the Big Red in Ithaca next week.


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4908

Reg: 11-22-04
he clear emergence of the Brown Bears, does Columbia have any shot a
01-12-19 10:34 PM - Post#272403    
    In response to AntiUngvar

If you read the Mountainred post that I responded to, you’ll see that, in acknowledging my point, he made a lighthearted reference to going ahead and playing the games. I was referencing that, in a way that I thought was equally lighthearted. I apologize if that was somehow offensive. To be clear I was not suggesting that any Columbia fans didn’t want to play the season. Of course, I’m a little surprised I have to say this, and I’m pretty confident that Chet Forte wasn’t interpreting my comment that way (or even responding to me).

As for whether I should just frequent the Penn board, I am happy to go away if people prefer that. However, I note that this board has always been a pleasant place to talk basketball, and Columbia fans like Chet, Columbia 37P6, and Dr V are passionate and knowledgeable and I have enjoyed their perspectives and our debates over the years. The tone and collegiality of the board changed markedly when you began posting, as the posts have become more personal and less about actual basketball. If the traditional Columbia posters want me gone, I am happy to step away. Otherwise, I will continue to comment when I have something to say. I can not guarantee that what I say will make sense, but I will do my best.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1765

Reg: 10-09-09
01-12-19 10:39 PM - Post#272404    
    In response to SomeGuy

SG: I have always enjoyed your posts and urge you to stay.

 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
Re: he clear emergence of the Brown Bears, does Columbia have any shot a
01-12-19 11:08 PM - Post#272406    
    In response to SomeGuy

SomeGuy,
I can't control what you do or write- even when you're making it up. But a while ago, you presented something as fact, with no corroborating evidence attached to it, stating that I was posting under two different monikers. After I called you on it, and it should have patently obvious to you that the person using that other title was banished by the powers that be, you offered no statement
of contrition or apology for your jump to a false conclusion. I really felt that situation would have been a better one for you to express some remorse about than anything that's transpired herein during the last 24 hours.


Edited by AntiUngvar on 01-12-19 11:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4908

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: he clear emergence of the Brown Bears, does Columbia have any shot a
01-12-19 11:37 PM - Post#272407    
    In response to AntiUngvar

You mean the multiple screen names thing? My “basis” was that one poster was named Michael Valmas, which appears to also be your name. Both started posting a while back, and immediately thereafter the administrator put up a message reminding of the rule that nobody should be posting from multiple accounts. Somebody (I think Jeff2SF) asked who the administrator was referencing, and given these facts I assumed it was you, and so I said so. If you “called me on it,” I never saw it, so I had no idea that I owed you an apology. I frankly largely stopped reading your posts (and Valmas’s) because they tended to be personal and argumentative and I assumed you were just one guy spamming the board from multiple screen names.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4908

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: he clear emergence of the Brown Bears, does Columbia have any shot a
01-12-19 11:43 PM - Post#272408    
    In response to AntiUngvar

Your edit to this post is interesting. As originally written, your post begged the question as to how you knew the other poster had been banished (if he was indeed not you). You seem to have reread your post, noticed that it might be a question that would suggest you were in fact both posters, and therefore changed the phrasing to now say it must be obvious the other poster was banished. Certainly not anything I had noticed, if he has in fact been banished. Nor do I have any idea why he would have been banished (or even whether we banish anyone, or why we would).

 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
Re: he clear emergence of the Brown Bears, does Columbia have any shot a
01-13-19 12:07 AM - Post#272410    
    In response to SomeGuy

You see a post is edited, and it's of course so easy for you to make up your own convenient explanation for it. That's not the name of the poster banned. And if you don't read my posts, why are you opening up this can of worms tonight in response to one of my posts?


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4908

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: he clear emergence of the Brown Bears, does Columbia have any shot a
01-13-19 12:29 AM - Post#272411    
    In response to AntiUngvar

As I am sure you know as well as I do what you had originally written, saying that I am inventing an explanation is a remarkably dishonest tact to take. What you said originally was simply that the other poster was banned. You edited it to say that it should have been obvious that the other poster was banned — downplaying your knowledge of that fact.

You make it clear in this latest post that you do in fact know who the banned poster was. So who was posting under multiple names? How do you know them? I apparently don’t know, despite all of the evidence I am aware of suggesting that you were, in fact, both posters.

 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
01-13-19 12:56 AM - Post#272413    
    In response to SomeGuy

Contact the webmaster.


 
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