SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4919
Reg: 02-04-06
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01-16-19 08:18 PM - Post#272784
In response to jeromelh
I loved the old setup. Maybe I'm just a better procrastinator, but we had a long reading period before exams and final papers in January, so it was easy to forget about all of it during break if you wanted. And I liked catching up on some of the reading during down time over Christmas--my courses weren't that boring. It made the run-up to the holidays a lot less rushed and more pleasant, too.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32877
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-16-19 09:04 PM - Post#272793
In response to jeromelh
Well, I certainly agree with you. But SRP is more typical of Princeton alums of my generation, apparently.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1892
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-16-19 09:24 PM - Post#272798
In response to palestra38
I’m with SRP on this. I always thought that if you planned your time well, the 3+ weeks between Christmas and exams with no classes was ample to prep for exams and complete final papers etc. I’m pretty sure that I enjoyed the run up to Christmas, and the week of Thanksgiving for that matter, more than friends that we’re cramming for December finals.
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jeromelh
Junior
Posts: 215
Age: 81
Reg: 03-30-17
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01-16-19 09:40 PM - Post#272801
In response to TigerFan
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I was just unable to forget about my course work during the holidays. Yes there was ample time, but you can never be too prepared. This was especially true my freshman year when it seemed to me that everyone was brighter. There were innumerable classmates that were as obsessive-compulsive as I was.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-16-19 09:50 PM - Post#272804
In response to jeromelh
of course there's "ample" time. there's ample time to do everything when you're in college. the difference is the people who didn't have to study had more fun during winter break.
and obviously princeton finally recognized the bleeding obviousness of this so I'm right.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2278
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-17-19 08:06 AM - Post#272815
In response to SRP
I loved the old setup. Maybe I'm just a better procrastinator, but we had a long reading period before exams and final papers in January, so it was easy to forget about all of it during break if you wanted. And I liked catching up on some of the reading during down time over Christmas--my courses weren't that boring. It made the run-up to the holidays a lot less rushed and more pleasant, too.
Completely agree....more time to absorb the material, rather than cram for the test.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32877
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-17-19 09:08 AM - Post#272817
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
If you haven't absorbed the material over 12-14 weeks of the fall semester, you are likely to be cramming before the test whenever it is. Having tests hanging over you on break means there is no break---it's just a really long "reading period." I think the real difference is that you older Princeton grads have a very different view of what the break was about than today's students.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2278
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-17-19 11:17 AM - Post#272822
In response to palestra38
If you haven't absorbed the material over 12-14 weeks of the fall semester, you are likely to be cramming before the test whenever it is. Having tests hanging over you on break means there is no break---it's just a really long "reading period." I think the real difference is that you older Princeton grads have a very different view of what the break was about than today's students.
I have no doubt about the second point you make.
Regarding the first part, some things must be brute force memorized, not just absorbed. I am sitting here looking at my notes from Biochemistry 543 Intermediary Metabolism, which I still largely remember.
Charles Gilvarg, who taught the course, emphasized the iterative nature of memorization. The long break was useful for this.
Now I am sure there are arguments these days about the lack of necessity to memorize, since things are easily "googled", but when I lecture the medical residents these days about biochemistry, their recollection of simple biochemistry is so limited, it's hard to explain anything.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32877
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-17-19 11:22 AM - Post#272823
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
I'm not in any way knocking the Princeton education--there is no other Ivy school in which full professors actually teach most of the undergraduates in small classes. BTW, I think the smaller classes do more to foster learning than brute memorization.
But I would have been miserable if I had to take my entire winter break studying....and apparently, today's students agree with me.
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The Grape King
Freshman
Posts: 20
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 12-11-18
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01-17-19 03:28 PM - Post#272828
In response to palestra38
Princeton takes fall finals after Christmas? Christ.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32877
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-17-19 03:30 PM - Post#272829
In response to The Grape King
Always has----as did everyone at a time where students were expected to sit in their robes, smoke a pipe and have the maids clean their rooms (FYI--my freshman year at Penn, '74-'75, was the last year of maid service in the Quad). But the Princeton schedule is the reason we always have to force our games in against them.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-17-19 03:38 PM - Post#272832
In response to palestra38
so wait, when did penn switch?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32877
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-17-19 03:54 PM - Post#272834
In response to Jeff2sf
It was before my time---I believe it happened some time in the '60s. But Harvard did it until 2010--most switched in the '70s because I remember it being an issue at some of the other schools when I visited to call basketball games. I'll look to see if I can find anything definitive.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21276
Reg: 12-02-04
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Princeton at Penn
01-17-19 03:57 PM - Post#272836
In response to The Grape King
Christ took an even bigger fall after Christmas, but that was many months later.
Princeton takes fall finals after Christmas? Christ.
Edited by penn nation on 01-17-19 03:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21276
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-17-19 04:01 PM - Post#272837
In response to palestra38
My freshman year in the Quad was a decade later. My roommate and I shared a tiny, narrow closet and there wasn't even enough space between our beds to fit a mattress in case we wanted to have someone else stay in our room.
After that, I lived in HRN where at least there was air conditioning. Did I mention that Philly was in the midst of a heat wave when I moved in?
Always has----as did everyone at a time where students were expected to sit in their robes, smoke a pipe and have the maids clean their rooms (FYI--my freshman year at Penn, '74-'75, was the last year of maid service in the Quad). But the Princeton schedule is the reason we always have to force our games in against them.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4919
Reg: 02-04-06
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01-17-19 04:28 PM - Post#272838
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
Now I am sure there are arguments these days about the lack of necessity to memorize, since things are easily "googled", but when I lecture the medical residents these days about biochemistry, their recollection of simple biochemistry is so limited, it's hard to explain anything.
You could look up number facts and multiplication tables long before Google, but no sensible person suggested that people could do arithmetic very well without memorizing those.
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westcoast
Senior
Posts: 302
Reg: 03-08-16
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01-17-19 04:37 PM - Post#272839
In response to The Grape King
Princeton finals started yesterday, going from January 16-25. The finals were preceded by Reading Period from January 7-15, which is a time used for writing papers, going to review sessions, and studying (but no actuall classes).
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-17-19 04:59 PM - Post#272840
In response to PennFan10
Villanova is 67 KP on defense FWIW
Hi PF10 - sorry I missed this earlier.
Yeah, at the time Temple was 67 and Nova was 65. After Temple's last game (an away win still), their defense is ranked 76 now.
To be clear, a month ago I would have been confident we would beat Temple away because we were playing that well. Unfortunately, that month feels a long time ago and the offensive play has been way down since.
Absolutely still think this team has the talent to beat Temple in a Big 5 battle, but it is more to ask now that it was earlier in the season.
Here's to hoping for a big bounce back game for the guys. One thing I do like is that we're sandwiched in between ever important conference games for Temple and their riding high, so hopefully they underestimate us. Doubtful with Dunphy's last game against Penn, but let's see.
What's your view into the downturn? As simple as Mike and Max's injuries or something more?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32877
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-17-19 05:00 PM - Post#272841
In response to Mike Porter
It's not just Max and Mike---it's Betley and Williams and Tyler. We just don't have the depth this year to take that kind of body blow rash of injuries.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-17-19 05:27 PM - Post#272843
In response to palestra38
In the big picture, yes, absolutely hurt to lose them and think we could have been even better (maybe those Kansas State or Oregon State games go differently) had they really played this year.
That said, Betley and Williams essentially never played, and we still managed to play well enough to get to that 10-2 record. So for those purposes of my question, I'm not factoring them in the equation.
I'm particularly talking about those last 4 games where the team just really wasn't the same. Easy answer is Mike and Max injuries and could be as simple as that, but seems like more to me considering the downturn in offensive play from our guards that I shared before.
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