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Username Post: Canady        (Topic#22487)
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2366

Reg: 11-23-04
01-22-19 10:36 PM - Post#273375    
    In response to palestra38

I don’t know why people get their undies in a bunch about the HY game at the end of the season. Army/Navy are no longer national powers, but no one I know begrudges their game played well after most seasons have ended. HY is most important to its alumni (although some older Yalies occasionally take issue). As for Princeton we can choose anyone we want as our arch rival. Given the current state in the Ivies, it could be H, Y or D.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2366

Reg: 11-23-04
01-22-19 10:38 PM - Post#273376    
    In response to palestra38

I don’t know why people get their undies in a bunch about the HY game at the end of the season. Army/Navy are no longer national powers, but no one I know begrudges their game played well after most seasons have ended. HY is most important to its alumni (although some older Yalies occasionally take issue). As for Princeton we can choose anyone we want as our arch rival. Given the current state in the Ivies, it could be H, Y or D.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 12953

Reg: 12-02-04
01-22-19 11:08 PM - Post#273378    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Tiger69 Said:
I don’t know why people get their undies in a bunch about the HY game at the end of the season.



It's in the broader context of the issues P38 raises. It's having that "game" being "The Game" (if only to H and Y boosters) while depriving the IL as a whole of competing for a national championship.

Army and Navy are DI schools--the IL is not in football, so the comparison does not work.

Is there any sport in the IL where teams are not allowed to compete for a national title?

Didn't think so.


 
Dial Lodge 
Sophomore
Posts: 143

Reg: 03-08-07
Canady
01-23-19 11:53 AM - Post#273385    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Tiger69 Said:
Doesn’t sound good. Unlike many of us (including me), Devon’s screw-up has a huge audience and potentially life disrupting consequences. I wish him the best and hope that, whatever actually happened, he owns up to it and learns from it. It would be terrible for someone with so much promise to get untracked.



Something similar happened in about 1980. One of the stars on one of the major sports teams pushed or hit one of the campus policeman in a kind of a melee at a party, and he was suspended for a year.

His life wasn't ruined. He came back, graduated and has done fine post-graduation, and works in a position that requires a professional license.

Regardless of the short-term results of this, it's unlikely that Cannady's life will be ruined by this incident.

Good luck to him.

Edited by Dial Lodge on 01-23-19 11:54 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
LyleGold 
Masters Student
Posts: 919

Reg: 11-22-04
01-23-19 12:00 PM - Post#273386    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Tiger69 Said:
Army/Navy are no longer national powers, but no one I know begrudges their game played well after most seasons have ended. HY is most important to its alumni (although some older Yalies occasionally take issue).



There's no comparison there. Army and Navy can still play in bowl games afterwards. Harvard and Yale get to fire the final salvo in Ivy League football and then celebrate their own greatness. An Ivy team, especially a non H-Y one, going on to the playoffs would diminish the sacredness of The Game. It's totally self-serving and has no other rationale than that.


 
LyleGold 
Masters Student
Posts: 919

Reg: 11-22-04
Canady
01-23-19 12:14 PM - Post#273388    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:

I guess what I'm saying is, if a 14 game home and home round robin isn't fair, it's hard to find anything else more equitable. I say this even though my beloved Crimson could well be the team to benefit the most from the tournament this year if Towns and Aiken are healthy and practiced by that time.



I don't think anyone is arguing that the Fourteen Game Tournament is unfair. It's eminently fair and would never have been abandoned if fairness were the only criterion. The current format of the Ivy Tournament somewhat devalues the regular season without making it irrelevant, which an eight team tournament would do. Still, if you recall the first year of the tournament, #4 seed Penn barely squeaked in with a 6-8 league record and lost to undefeated Princeton in OT at the Palestra. If Matt Howard hadn't choked at the foul line in the closing seconds of regulation, there would have been howls throughout the league. Last year's tournament showed how great it could be because it produced a de facto playoff game between the co-champs of the regular season, which would have happened in the old days anyhow. My only contention is that clustering home and home matchups between travel partners distorts the symmetry of the league schedule that helps ensure that the best team over the course of the season emerges with the best record.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1627

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
01-23-19 01:12 PM - Post#273392    
    In response to LyleGold

It takes rare circumstances for the clustering to have an effect. Of course, by having the tournament on consecutive days such clustering is even more likely. But decoupling home court advantage from league results is far more prejudicial, as evidenced by your recounting the results of the only two tournaments thus far. Timing pales in comparison to unearned HCA.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1647
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 68
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Canady
01-23-19 01:15 PM - Post#273393    
    In response to Dial Lodge

  • Dial Lodge Said:
  • Tiger69 Said:
Doesn’t sound good. Unlike many of us (including me), Devon’s screw-up has a huge audience and potentially life disrupting consequences. I wish him the best and hope that, whatever actually happened, he owns up to it and learns from it. It would be terrible for someone with so much promise to get untracked.



Something similar happened in about 1980. One of the stars on one of the major sports teams pushed or hit one of the campus policeman in a kind of a melee at a party, and he was suspended for a year.

His life wasn't ruined. He came back, graduated and has done fine post-graduation, and works in a position that requires a professional license.

Regardless of the short-term results of this, it's unlikely that Cannady's life will be ruined by this incident.

Good luck to him.



Thanks for this anecdote. In all of this, my hope is all works out well for DC3.


 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 654

Age: 48
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Canady
01-23-19 02:18 PM - Post#273396    
    In response to LyleGold

  • LyleGold Said:


I don't think anyone is arguing that the Fourteen Game Tournament is unfair.



But people *did* argue that the old system was far from perfect, throwing out scenarios that were pretty close to what's going on now this season to support the implementation of a post-season tournament.

(There were other arguments as well, but I'm not going to re-hash them here).

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 21718

Reg: 11-21-04
01-23-19 02:42 PM - Post#273398    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Well, HCA is now determined in advance so it is not an issue at all. The League is determined to play at league sites, so there will be "unearned HCA" no matter what happens. And last year, all that happened is that the final was played at the Palestra rather than a neutral site.

Either we have a tournament or not--that is the choice, and frankly, I don't think it is going back to the old system.

 
LyleGold 
Masters Student
Posts: 919

Reg: 11-22-04
Canady
01-23-19 02:53 PM - Post#273399    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:

Either we have a tournament or not--that is the choice, and frankly, I don't think it is going back to the old system.



No, of course it isn't. The current system is a good compromise that provides the spectacle the league wants (and probably feels it needs) while maintaining a degree of regular season relevance. It could be argued, however, that only teams with winning league records should qualify for the tournament. If the fourth place team finished 6-8 (i.e. Penn 2017), the #1 seed would get a bye into the championship game. That would make sense and be fair, but the league would never truncate its spectacle to achieve that end.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1627

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
01-23-19 02:59 PM - Post#273402    
    In response to LyleGold

Under this system HCA remains always relevant and never earned. Seems impactful and unfortunate to me.


 
LyleGold 
Masters Student
Posts: 919

Reg: 11-22-04
Canady
01-23-19 03:08 PM - Post#273403    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
It takes rare circumstances for the clustering to have an effect.



I really don't think so. Sure, this year the debilitating injuries to key Penn players and subsequent suspension of Cannady created such rare circumstances. However, every season sees teams evolve as the league takes shape. The Ivy weekends span that period of time so as to equitably capture those changes. By the end of the six weekend rotation, everyone has played everyone else at different stages of the process. By that argument, the clustering always has a distorting effect. It only makes sense that the partner games follow the same pattern. (Play your first partner game during the initial series of weekends; play the return game during the repeat series.) In fact, it should be mandated to ensure the legitimacy of the double round robin.


 
LyleGold 
Masters Student
Posts: 919

Reg: 11-22-04
01-23-19 03:26 PM - Post#273404    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
Under this system HCA remains always relevant and never earned. Seems impactful and unfortunate to me.




So what are you suggesting? Always have the tournament at a neutral site? Have the #1 seed host it?

I wonder how much the inadequacy of Lavietes colors your opinion.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1627

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
01-23-19 04:41 PM - Post#273407    
    In response to LyleGold

We’ve been over this,
My suggestion has always been #1 seed or Mohegan Sun

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 21718

Reg: 11-21-04
01-23-19 05:21 PM - Post#273409    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

And neither of those is happening. What about the Ivies playing in the FCS championship. That's all prevented by Harvard and Yale? You want fairness?

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1627

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
01-23-19 05:44 PM - Post#273410    
    In response to palestra38

I just answered the question.
I don’t make the rules

 
Cvonvorys 
Postdoc
Posts: 2806

Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
01-23-19 06:01 PM - Post#273412    
    In response to palestra38

To get back on topic...

  • rbg Said:
Even if the reported information is correct, there certainly could be more to a story that involves a young athletic male person of color dealing with the police and a predominantly white community at a convenience store in the early morning hours.



  • AntiUngvar Said:
It needs to be noted at some point that none of us are perfect; and, in my humble opinion, that we tend to look at this situation the way white people have historically looked at these types of things- you need not agree, and I will have nothing more to offer on the subject.



It really is sad when one has to immediately interject race into the conversation. Bad/reckless behavior is wrong regardless of skin color... According to news reports, "Campus police were called to the store at 3:30 a.m. Friday. Officials said Cannady pushed customers and threatened others during the incident."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/story/...

So if Campus Police were called in, this incident was one that lasted more than a couple minutes and is serious, regardless of whether Cannady is black, white, brown, red, yellow, or purple.

As a long-time Princeton resident (and in the interest of full disclosure, a Penn Grad) I can assure y'all that there is nothing racial about this event... At least from a law enforcement perspective.

To a hammer, everything is a nail. To some, everything is racially biased.

I have no doubt that the Princeton Athletic Department and the Mercer County Prosecutor's Office will handle this fairly. And I have no doubt that Devin will come out of this just fine...



 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 2305

Reg: 02-15-15
01-23-19 06:03 PM - Post#273413    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
We’ve been over this,
My suggestion has always been #1 seed or Mohegan Sun



We have been over this and the answer to your 2 suggestions (for everyone else’s benefit )are:

No, because a stated goal is men and women at same site. And:

No, because another stated goal (as evidenced by this year’s location) is to highlight the member team campuses.

And another goal that has been clearly left out is any idea of fairness.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 21718

Reg: 11-21-04
01-23-19 06:27 PM - Post#273414    
    In response to Cvonvorys

I think that what is questionable is that it is so completely out of character that we are not getting the full story. And only one person tied it to race, and was quickly corrected. A lot of facts still need to come out here before one can come to any conclusions.

 
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