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Username Post: Cornell        (Topic#22492)
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
01-20-19 04:51 PM - Post#273184    
    In response to SomeGuy

Hey, SomeGuy: there's a real lack of activity on the Yale page. You may have heard they have a pretty good team in New Haven! Why not drag your tail between your legs, and go over there and help them out?


 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2163

Reg: 02-14-06
01-20-19 06:51 PM - Post#273197    
    In response to SomeGuy

Maybe so, but it seemed to me that once Adlesh got going, Cornell had difficulty guarding Adlesh and Stefanini together. One of the bright spots in the game yesterday was the improved play of both Ellis and Bibbs. They are coming along, but probably not fast enough to save the season unless Engles finally figures out a way to give this year's Columbia team a winning identity. Engles didn't do that the last two seasons and it looks like that is happening again this year. In my opinion, Columbia is a much more talented basketball team overall than Cornell,. For Columbia to defeat Cornell at home next weekend, Engles needs to make certain that the Lions sprint out the gate with total confidence in themselves and their head coach's' game plan. Then, Engles and his assistants have to take their jackets off and show some fire and enthusiasm themselves on the sideline so as to get the Columbia fans into the game. Cornell #2 is a huge game, indeed a "must win game" for the Lions. The great contemporary author John Grisham might even describe next Saturday night's game as a the Lions' "Reckoning."

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
01-20-19 10:06 PM - Post#273207    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

These coaches never seem to show any emotion during the game itself. I never see them encourage our guys. Maybe I’m missing something here but it looks as if they are very tightly wound and that it carries over to the players.


 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
01-20-19 10:30 PM - Post#273209    
    In response to Chet Forte

Exactly!


 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2201

Reg: 10-09-09
01-21-19 11:18 AM - Post#273220    
    In response to Chet Forte

I used to think this, but then I heard the contrary argument at the get-together this past week: in an emotional game, it is better for the coaches to present a calmer disposition on the sideline. In other words, if the players have to be emotional, the coaches shouldn't be. To some extent, this is true--if you look around the IL, Amaker, Jones, and most of the other coaches stand pretty silently--some with their arms crossed--on the sideline. From this perspective, I think you could make an even stronger argument that players are more likely to play tight for fear of making a mistake in front of a coach who screams and yells than one who tries to create some emotional distance by fostering an oasis of calm. But whatever side you come down on in this discussion, I no longer think the correct answer is as clear as I once thought it to be.



 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
01-21-19 12:08 PM - Post#273223    
    In response to cc66

Nothing prior your statement references "screaming and yelling".
But Buddy Mahar, who did do some screaming and yelling in his day, went 17-9 in 78-79; and beat UPenn's eventual Final Four team at Levien Gymnasium. Passion's not necessarily a bad thing.


 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2163

Reg: 02-14-06
01-21-19 12:39 PM - Post#273224    
    In response to cc66

cc66, that person's argument is obviously a faulty apples to oranges comparison that would only apply if the three coaches you named all had similar win-loss records and skills. Unfortunately for Columbia fans our guy is not quite in the class yet of Tommy Amaker who is the greatest recruiter in Harvard Basketball History and has retained all the vast talent he has recruited, and James Jones, another great recruiter with remarkable game management skills. Those guys have so distinguished themselves at Harvard and Yale that they are entitled to keep their jackets on during the game. That's not the case with Engles so he obviously needs to change his approach and one of the things that might work for him is to take the jacket off and show a little emotion. Incidentally, my feeling is that most college athletes prefer coaches that show some spirit and enthusiasm for you and your teammates during a sporting event, including showing their anger when a ref makes questionable or even unquestionable calls that go against you.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
01-21-19 12:53 PM - Post#273227    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Check out Steve Donohue, who is the most animated guy I have ever seen. He took a Penn program which had pretty much gone into the dustbin of history and turned it around with his great enthusiasm, excellent recruiting, cagy game management and obvious affection for his players. He works the refs, talks up his guys, and makes them want to run through walls for him. Solemnity is great for tundertakers, not so much for basketball coaches. And enthusiasm sure works for Kyle Smith.


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
01-21-19 12:53 PM - Post#273228    
    In response to Chet Forte

Meant undertakers, of course. Spell check issue again.


 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2163

Reg: 02-14-06
01-21-19 01:27 PM - Post#273234    
    In response to Chet Forte

Great remark about undertakers!

 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
01-21-19 01:44 PM - Post#273235    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

The next time Chet leaves us, Engles will surely be there in his familiar suit carrying the box- with that same dumb look he had on his face at the end of the Fordham game!


 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3765

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
01-21-19 02:05 PM - Post#273239    
    In response to AntiUngvar

Let's be careful here: there are different types of emotional engagement, and this thread seems to be conflating them. At one end of the spectrum you have positive enthusiasm, which I'd associate with Kyle Smith and Steve Donahue. At the other end you have a more abusive sort of energy. Buddy Mahar was probably in this category, as was Joe Scott, and maybe Pete Carill. Also Bob Knight. Once upon a time, abuse was an effective way of motivating college athletes. No more. College kids (to their credit) won't tolerate this sort of treatment anymore.

 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2163

Reg: 02-14-06
01-21-19 02:36 PM - Post#273243    
    In response to Silver Maple

I do not believe that anyone on this board is confusing the two different types of emotional engagement you are describing. No one here has either stated or even intimated that JE is abusing the players. So you need to be careful as well.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3765

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
01-21-19 03:07 PM - Post#273249    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

You misread my post. I said nothing of the sort.

 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2201

Reg: 10-09-09
01-21-19 04:47 PM - Post#273260    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

I don't think there is any evidence that Amaker and Jones have gotten quieter on the sidelines as their wins piled up. Between them and Engles, you are just seeing two different displays of emotional affect. Control just for affect, and you would be extremely hard-pressed to correlate one with winning and the other with losing.

SM is right that there is a difference on the active end between enthusiasm and abusive yelling. Toward the quieter part of the spectrum, however, there is also a difference between patient instruction and disengagement. I think Engles sees himself as offering patient instruction. You can see some evidence of that instruction in Tape, Brumant, Ellis, and maybe even Bibbs--the players who have improved this season. Whether that improvement is sufficient to overcome the loss of Smith and the team's other talent deficiencies is something that will be answered in the next six weeks.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
01-21-19 07:08 PM - Post#273278    
    In response to cc66

I would like to see more enthusiasm and encouragement from the sidelines. Donohue does it with his guys. Engles generally ignores his players when they are substituted out and come Off the court. Donohue hugs them.


 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2201

Reg: 10-09-09
01-21-19 07:48 PM - Post#273283    
    In response to Chet Forte

Me too. I wish Engles would at least do that.

 
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