Untitled Document
Brown Columbia Cornell Dartmouth Harvard Penn Princeton Yale



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Username Post: St. Joe's        (Topic#22513)
OldBig5 
Masters Student
Posts: 639

Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
01-27-19 02:50 AM - Post#273771    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Big Five Champs! Who knew that Drexel was in the Big Five and not Temple!

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3615
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
01-27-19 03:11 AM - Post#273772    
    In response to dperry

How was the Penn crowd in general? Seemed like an active crowd, even if not as loud as Nova game but hard to tell which fans while watching on TV.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3765

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
01-27-19 10:16 AM - Post#273773    
    In response to Chip Bayers

  • Chip Bayers Said:
A healthy Williams is probably the primary ballhandler.



I hope you're right about that, but Williams will have played virtually no basketball for two years by then. He'll have a lot of rust to shake off.

 
UPIA1968 
PhD Student
Posts: 1117
UPIA1968
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
01-27-19 10:44 AM - Post#273777    
    In response to Silver Maple

After my dumping on Jake after the Princeton games his play in the two games shows that the bad stretch was the aberration, not the earlier good stretch. You can see why he was such a high school star. I was clearly wrong.

After three years of struggling to deal with the superior athleticism of college ball, he has figured out how to contribute despite his physical limitations. On offense he has done exactly what we hoped he would do, becoming a good 3 shooter, currently .419, nationally ranked.

On D he makes up for his clear liabilities by playing the passing lanes effectively, again ranked nationally in steals.

Some of this growth is obviously due to the coaching staff, but we must credit the majority to a player with brains and desire - just like Foreman last year.

That said, this team's ability to close out wins against good teams under pressure speaks well about the coaching staff's selection of players and the poise with which they play. Penn won last night because they had only 7 turnovers in a difficult game.

In each of the last three years now, Steve's teams have a major accomplishment: making the Ivy Tournament, winning it, winning the big 5. The progress is waaaay beyond our expectations. And next year will be significantly better than this year. Wow! This sure is fun!

One point about next year. For the last fifteen years we have talked about Penn's depth, only to discover that it has depth in low-level college talent. Next year, assuming Williams and Betley are healthy Penn will have seven or eight players of mid to high-level college talent. The St. Joes and Temple boards will not be moaning about how bad coaching blew a game to the Ivy league patsies, but how bad coaching has fallen behind Penn's rise to solid Mid-major status. "Hey if those Ivy pussies can do it, cant' we?

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
01-27-19 11:24 AM - Post#273788    
    In response to Chip Bayers

  • Chip Bayers Said:
  • penn nation Said:
This might be Woods' worst game as a Quaker.



This wasn’t close to true because of his denial D on Brown.



It’s tough on tv to see just how difficult an assignment like this was but rest assured this was not his worst game thanks exactly to what you cite. It cannot be easy always having to match up with the oppositions best player, regardless of height differential.

It’s just awesome being Big 5 champs and the guys celebrated as such. Props to the St Joe’s PA guy for congratulating us.

Jake is really putting together a collection of clutch shots. That 3 was SO pure. It was just nice to see the great ball movement back again. Bryce is a beast and as others have said, Wang looked better. It was interesting watching Dartmouth take another run at Harvard yesterday. Outside of the HCA for Yale I don’t see why we can’t still win this league.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
01-27-19 11:32 AM - Post#273789    
    In response to Mike Porter

  • Mike Porter Said:
A tough win like this will only help the rest of the way because every Ivy League game will be a tough game. Kenpom is predicting us finishing 7-7 in a tough league and missing the tournament. Let’s go prove we’re much better than that!



I’m sorry but this is a better than .500 team. I understand that the league has improved but come on.

And I know I’m the king whiner when it comes to officials, but did we get one call in that second half? I don’t think I’ve ever seen the ball handed back to a team on a slip like that. Others mentioned the phantom 3 shots and weak Antonio fouls but at one point in the first half the fouls were 6-1. Sadly, it only gets worse from here.

 
Charlie Fog 
Masters Student
Posts: 586

Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
01-27-19 11:36 AM - Post#273790    
    In response to Quakers03

It seems like every year Penn gets hosed by the refs against St Joe's

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3765

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
St. Joe's
01-27-19 12:13 PM - Post#273794    
    In response to UPIA1968

  • UPIA1968 Said:

After three years of struggling to deal with the superior athleticism of college ball, he has figured out how to contribute despite his physical limitations. On offense he has done exactly what we hoped he would do, becoming a good 3 shooter, currently .419, nationally ranked.

On D he makes up for his clear liabilities by playing the passing lanes effectively, again ranked nationally in steals.

Some of this growth is obviously due to the coaching staff, but we must credit the majority to a player with brains and desire - just like Foreman last year.




Quite a few years ago I saw an interview with Denny Crum. He was talking about defense, and saying that it's not an individual skill, but a team skill, and being a successful defensive player is not nearly as much about athleticism as it is about doing your job within the team's defensive scheme. I have no doubt that Donahue agrees with this philosophy. It has taken Silpe awhile to learn to play within the scheme, but he clearly knows how to do it now.

 
The Grape King 
Freshman
Posts: 20

Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 12-11-18
01-27-19 03:46 PM - Post#273811    
    In response to Silver Maple

https://bustingbrackets.com/2019/01/27/penn-baske t...

Congrats guys, happy for your program.

 
LyleGold 
PhD Student
Posts: 1712

Reg: 11-22-04
01-27-19 05:21 PM - Post#273820    
    In response to The Grape King

  • The Grape King Said:
https://bustingbrackets.com/2019/01/27/penn-baske t...

Congrats guys, happy for your program.



Grape-cious as always!

 
Streamers 
Professor
Posts: 8141
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
01-27-19 06:28 PM - Post#273825    
    In response to Charlie Fog

  • Charlie Fog Said:
It seems like every year Penn gets hosed by the refs against St Joe's



Trust me, this was worse than usual. If Penn had lost, we would be howling for weeks about the 'slip' travel, all the hacks on AJ that were not called, the cancellation of the moving pick rule, etc.

So many random thoughts after reading the thread and witnessing the game:

It actually went the way many predicted it would. Penn matches up well against this Hawk squad. Brown got his, he always does despite Antonio's relentless D - but AJ scored just about every time he got down low and was not doubled. When he was, they mostly found the open 3 and hit enough of them. SJU couldn't hit anything from outside and the FTs went down this time down the stretch. Note they got the ball in Wang's hands for those.

We miss Max. This pattern of getting crushed off the offensive boards (second chance points is what kept this thing close) started when he went down. I have a feeling we will not be seeing much of him on the court for the next couple of weeks as those long bus trips can't be good for his back.

Speaking of Wang, I agree his body and mind appear to be 100%. Now if they could just get him to go stronger to the hoop at one end and be more aggressive rebounding at the other.

Washington is getting better every game. This has taken the sting out of losing Betley and truly has been enabled by his getting Betley's minutes.

Putting it in perspective, and looking ahead, this Big 5 sweep is a great achievement, and it's a shame that getting swept by PU is dampening some of the enthusiasm. But let's not forget that the Hawks, in their current form, would likely go about 8-6 in our league and miss the playoff. Penn likely needs to win 3 of the next four on the road. My prediction is that they will do that on the way to 9-5 and a playoff berth.


 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 21086

Reg: 12-02-04
01-27-19 06:36 PM - Post#273826    
    In response to Streamers

  • Streamers Said:

We miss Max. This pattern of getting crushed off the offensive boards (second chance points is what kept this thing close) started when he went down. I have a feeling we will not be seeing much of him on the court for the next couple of weeks as those long bus trips can't be good for his back.




In that case, wouldn't it make sense for Max to take a much shorter Philly-NYC train ride for a Saturday night Columbia game and just skip the long Philly-Ithaca-NYC bus ride altogether?




 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 23199

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
01-27-19 07:04 PM - Post#273830    
    In response to penn nation

Or just stand up on the bus. Come on. A bus ride isn't going to hurt his back.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 21086

Reg: 12-02-04
01-27-19 08:00 PM - Post#273835    
    In response to 10Q

I'm guessing a 6'8" basketball player might give you a different take about this experience.

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 23199

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
01-27-19 10:20 PM - Post#273844    
    In response to penn nation

Are you telling me they can’t transport one guy safely? Ludicrous.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 21086

Reg: 12-02-04
01-27-19 10:25 PM - Post#273846    
    In response to 10Q

Paging Steve Danley.

This could be an interesting take.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
01-27-19 11:14 PM - Post#273851    
    In response to Chip Bayers

I don’t mean to discount Williams. However, when I look at who is playing well right now, I like the idea of playing AJ, Wang, Betley, Washington, and Goodman together a lot next year. That either means playing less combo guard offense than we do right now (to me, Goodman and Woods kind of split traditional PG duties) or Washington playing more of a combo role than he does now. What I want to avoid is making Wang, Betley, and Washington split two spots.

 
UPIA1968 
PhD Student
Posts: 1117
UPIA1968
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
01-27-19 11:44 PM - Post#273853    
    In response to SomeGuy

If Williams plays a lot next year it means that he is better than the alternative. If Devon is a good player, a player who beats him out for time would be pretty good, maybe a point guard that can shoot from three consistently and get to the hole and defend taller opponents.

 
SteveChop 
PhD Student
Posts: 1150

Reg: 07-28-07
01-28-19 01:38 AM - Post#273857    
    In response to UPIA1968

To your earlier post in which you correctly identified low turnovers as a positive factor last night, I would also note that Penn's assists to field goal attempts ratio was way higher in the last two games (versus the two Princeton games). That was also a characteristic when we won in the earlier part of the schedule too.

As far as Jelani Williams, while I still hope he will be an impact player, I think it would be hard to expect that from him in the early part of the season as he will have been out of competitive basketball for nearly three years. Last year, it took Antonio a number of games to get to a good comfort level after only a year and a half away from competition with no injury. The good news is with the way we have seen Bryce, Wang and Goodman develop, together with Betley returning along with AJ, we should start the season with a strong enough team to let Williams proceed at a pace without a lot of pressure to perform early in the season.

But enough of next year. Let's get started winning the rest of the 14 games (and more) THIS YEAR! Bring layers to Cornell - predicted high for Friday in Ithaca is 3 degrees on Thursday and 12 degrees on Friday. See you there!

 
Condor 
PhD Student
Posts: 1888

Reg: 11-21-04
01-28-19 08:31 AM - Post#273861    
    In response to SteveChop

I agree that the focus should be on this year, but I just wondered why no mention of Dingle. I understand that he will only be a freshman, but he has just as much experience playing college ball as Williams. Of course, I have not seen him play, but the reviews sound promising.

 
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