palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-01-19 08:37 AM - Post#274340
https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/01/steve -bilsky...
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3770
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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02-01-19 08:52 AM - Post#274342
In response to palestra38
Now there's a man with ironclad credibility among Penn fans.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-01-19 09:06 AM - Post#274347
In response to palestra38
While he's just patently wrong about a tournament decreasing the chance of two bids (however minuscule you think the odds are in both cases anyway), I also think this piece is a classic case of thinking small.
We're the 11th best conference this year with four Tier I wins as a league and a Penn team that, if it hadn't slipped after losing Wang, would have an at large resume (2-2 Tier I, 1-1 Tier II) with potentially two more Tier Is (@Yale 2X) and two more Tier II (@Brown, @Harvard) games to go. Next year is going to be the peak of the cycle given the insane 2016 class.
Maybe that will be it, in which case Bilsky's view of the world will remain unchallenged. But 10 years ago, people would have called me crazy (and did) to imagine a league that was pushing into the Top 10 as a conference and regularly hauling in Top 100 recruits. I believe in the continued build here, and if so, the past won't be very good evidence in arguments like these.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-01-19 10:01 AM - Post#274354
In response to mrjames
Mike, not long ago, there was a fair bit of doom and gloom surrounding the increased AI minimum (I think it was the AI minimum), and how that would have a strongly negative impact on the ability to recruit—particularly for the non-HYPP.
What happened?
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-01-19 10:20 AM - Post#274364
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Correct - it was the AI minimum. Last I heard it was sitting at 183, though it feels like it's been changing annually since it moved off the 171 level it had been at for a while.
I did feel like teams that were fishing for multiple players a year at the floor could be impacted, but at the end of the day, the AI has a marginal impact relative to FinAid. If we went back to 2007 FinAid across the league, the drop of AI from 183 back down to 171 would be essentially meaningless as help.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4910
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-01-19 01:48 PM - Post#274404
In response to mrjames
Mike, you sound like Charlie Brown expecting Lucy to hold the football this time. (Reference may be too dated for you.) The committee will bend heaven and earth to stop the smaller leagues from getting extra bids. The only way the Ivies will get a second bid is, maybe, if they deserve three or four.
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westcoast
Senior
Posts: 302
Reg: 03-08-16
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02-01-19 02:01 PM - Post#274408
In response to SRP
One factor that may help the Ivies is an evolution of the people on the NCAA Selection Committee. This year's committee of 10 includes 4 Power 5 members (ADs/VPs from Stanford, Duke, Kentucky, Northwestern), 4 Mid-Major people (Toledo, Bradley, commissioners of Mountain West and Atlantic 10), and 2 small colleges (UNC-Asheville, commissioner of the Southland conference). It is not set in stone that the Selection Committee will always favor the Power 5 conferences.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12530
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-01-19 02:17 PM - Post#274411
In response to westcoast
His idea of 3 teams isn't awful...
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-01-19 03:20 PM - Post#274418
In response to Quakers03
His idea of 3 teams isn't awful...
Yes, it makes a lot of sense because it greatly rewards winning the regular season. It also allows the #1 seed to be rested for the final, which is another earned advantage. However, having only one semi lessens the spectacle the league wants and reduces ticket sales, so I doubt we'll see such a sensible solution.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-01-19 03:43 PM - Post#274421
In response to LyleGold
I'm not sure it would decrease sales because they could have a unified men's and women's semi and final doubleheader.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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02-03-19 07:31 PM - Post#274962
In response to palestra38
I don't see why they just don't invite all 8 teams. It works for other one bid leagues. A three tourney could be lots of fun.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-03-19 08:57 PM - Post#274967
In response to OldBig5
I don't see why they just don't invite all 8 teams. It works for other one bid leagues. A three tourney could be lots of fun.
Nah, they've already made the regular season halfway irrelevant by inviting half the teams to the tournament. You want to make it totally irrelevant by inviting everybody. Might as well play 27 out of conference games as tuneups for the tournament and just roll the dice. Think how much it will help our KenPom by not having those 14 pesky Ivy League games dragging us down.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-03-19 11:02 PM - Post#274975
In response to LyleGold
I don't see why they just don't invite all 8 teams. It works for other one bid leagues. A three tourney could be lots of fun.
Nah, they've already made the regular season halfway irrelevant by inviting half the teams to the tournament. You want to make it totally irrelevant by inviting everybody. Might as well play 27 out of conference games as tuneups for the tournament and just roll the dice. Think how much it will help our KenPom by not having those 14 pesky Ivy League games dragging us down.
And yet somehow it works for the other conferences.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-03-19 11:10 PM - Post#274976
In response to OldBig5
For the larger conferences, it most certainly opens up an additional chance for an extra tourney slot from a lower ranked conference team.
That's hardly the case with the IL.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8220
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-19 09:01 AM - Post#274989
In response to penn nation
Have you ever noticed that, aside from the power 5, these tournaments get smaller crowds than low-A minor league baseball on a rainy night?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-19 09:11 AM - Post#274993
In response to Streamers
The attendance at the early round games in Power Conference tournaments is pretty sparse, too
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 149
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-04-19 01:19 PM - Post#275032
In response to penn nation
Congratulations to Mr. Bilsky; at least until he suggested Palestra as a permanent host of an alternative top-three tournament he obviously does not believe in.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-05-19 09:47 PM - Post#275154
In response to Naismith
Without a tournament the season would be over for the Quakers. I still favor having all 8 teams in it. The America East format is an interesting alternative having the first two rounds at a single site and then the final at the home court of the higher seed. Guarantees a rabid crowd for that last game.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-05-19 10:36 PM - Post#275160
In response to OldBig5
That's actually not too bad, but I still like the four team format. Yes, without it our season would be over, but we still have to play well in our last 10 games to get in - probably 7-3. You would lose that suspense and sense of urgency with an all-in tournament.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1120
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-05-19 10:49 PM - Post#275162
In response to LyleGold
Why not Friday night and Sunday afternoon games with all games at the home gym of the favorite? Still a four-team tournament.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-06-19 07:46 AM - Post#275174
In response to UPIA1968
That would be better yet. Anything that strengthens the regular season is a move in the right direction. However, the Ivy League office has decided that the joint men's and women's tournament should be a marketing spectacle that brings together the "Ivy League Community" to celebrate itself. It wants to trot out its 16 legends (8 men, 8 women) and put out the eight piece ice sculpture so people can pose for photographs. Disperse playoff games scattered around the league would ruin the festival atmosphere the league wants. I agree about the Friday-Sunday schedule by the way.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-06-19 10:04 AM - Post#275191
In response to LyleGold
The ice sculpture was a nice touch.
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 149
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-06-19 10:48 AM - Post#275198
In response to OldBig5
For most of 40 years, six Ivy teams not named Penn and Princeton saw their seasons' championship hopes essentially end by Ground Hog Day with no apparent complaints. In the new world, P&P facing parity seem to now love getting a second chance.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-06-19 11:27 AM - Post#275205
In response to Naismith
Where do you get that conclusion? I would say that 80% of the Penn posters and close to 100% of the Princeton posters opposed a tournament. A tournament was put into place. Do you not want us to discuss our chances to get into the tournament now that it is here? No, it's not fair, but it is what it is. I see no hypocrisy, though.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-06-19 11:43 AM - Post#275209
In response to palestra38
I can do 2 things at once. I can:
1. Dislike intensely the loss of tradition and 14 game tournament and,
2. Be intensely relieved that the rest of the season matters.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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02-06-19 12:17 PM - Post#275219
In response to 10Q
Count me in with P38 and 10Q. I was strongly against the tournament (and remain so) BUT since that IS the situation for this season, I want to see Penn in it and win it.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-06-19 12:46 PM - Post#275229
In response to PennFan10
The ice sculpture was a nice touch.
Sure, it was. I liked it a lot. I liked winning the tournament even more.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1145
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-07-19 02:48 PM - Post#275358
In response to UPIA1968
Why not Friday night and Sunday afternoon games with all games at the home gym of the favorite? Still a four-team tournament.
Because the league wants both the men's and women's tournaments held at the same site.
That's going to be the answer to any form of "why don't we have it at the top seed's home court" suggestion.
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-08-19 12:32 AM - Post#275434
In response to Go Green
Why not Friday night and Sunday afternoon games with all games at the home gym of the favorite? Still a four-team tournament.
Because the league wants both the men's and women's tournaments held at the same site.
That's going to be the answer to any form of "why don't we have it at the top seed's home court" suggestion.
I think the women's teams are holding on a little too tight to formal equality, IMO at the expense of doing things that might actually get them more attention. Having that tournament at the top seed would help increase the crowd and would get them out from under the shadow of the men. I'm not sure any other conference plays both tournaments in the same place and at the same time, and there certainly aren't many.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-08-19 12:35 AM - Post#275435
In response to OldBig5
And yet somehow it works for the other conferences.
The other small conferences do it. Whether it actually works for them is precisely the point in dispute.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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Re: Bilsky Decides to Announce he Hates the Tournament
02-08-19 08:36 PM - Post#275543
In response to dperry
And yet somehow it works for the other conferences.
The other small conferences do it. Whether it actually works for them is precisely the point in dispute.
Have any of them dropped the tournament?
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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02-08-19 10:56 PM - Post#275605
In response to OldBig5
Has any of them done a serious cost-benefit analysis? 
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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