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Brown Columbia Cornell Dartmouth Harvard Penn Princeton Yale



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Username Post: It's trees stupid!        (Topic#22616)
LyleGold 
Masters Student
Posts: 885

Reg: 11-22-04
02-12-19 08:39 PM - Post#276099    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
Next year at Lavietes!(?)




לשנה הבאה
B'Lavietes?

I don't think so!

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 16632

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
02-12-19 08:49 PM - Post#276101    
    In response to LyleGold

Chalila

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 12822

Reg: 12-02-04
02-12-19 08:57 PM - Post#276103    
    In response to LyleGold

  • LyleGold Said:


לשנה הבאה
B'Rebuilt Lavietes?

I don't think so!



Efsher.


 
westphillywarrior 
Sophomore
Posts: 187

Age: 38
Reg: 01-08-11
02-13-19 09:55 AM - Post#276129    
    In response to Streamers

I guess if we've learned anything from this discussion it's that we're not supposed to question the judgement of the mysterious league "decision makers".

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3906

Reg: 11-22-04
02-13-19 10:31 AM - Post#276142    
    In response to westphillywarrior

well they definitely hit a home run with how awesome the 4 team tourney has been so I'm willing to cut them some slack. you should too

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 2268

Reg: 02-15-15
02-13-19 10:55 AM - Post#276150    
    In response to westphillywarrior

Seems to me the ability to question the decision makers is what keeps this board going year after year.

 
rbg 
PhD Student
Posts: 1615

Reg: 10-20-14
02-13-19 11:00 AM - Post#276152    
    In response to Jeff2sf

While the existence of the Tournament continues to be a debatable topic, the actual event has had many positives. It will be interesting on a number of levels to see how it plays out at the John J Lee Amphitheater.

The arena is much smaller than the Palestra, so there may be backlash from fans from the 4 teams who cannot get a ticket.

The arena may not have a large amount of locker room space, which could upset the players, coaches and ADs.

Has Yale ever hosted a basketball double-header or quadruple-header? The Tournament has an eight team shootaround on Friday, a quadruple-header on Saturday and a double-header on Sunday. That is a really tough schedule for a staff that has never done something of that magnitude.

There is an 2/12/19 article at the Daily Princetonian in which the writer notes that there is no dedicated press row at the Lee Amphitheater. That may not play well with non-ESPN and non-Ivy League folks who are reporting on the event.
http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2019/02/m...

The arena should be packed and loud for the Saturday men's double-header and finals. However, watching the Yale men's and women's games are a bit frustrating. The announcer's audio is generally poor (as it is at several other Ivy sites) and more of the court is cut off on the video than any other site in the league. These issues have not changed with the partnership with ESPN. If they are not corrected, it may not play well to the desired TV and streaming audience.

The Yale men's team has a very good chance to be the #1 seed, which would help the league with regards to the home court advantage issue.

The Yale women's team is presently #2. In the first two years of the Tournament, there has been a #1 seed that has been significantly better than the #2-8 teams and has easily won each Tournament. This year does not seem to have that separation from the #1 seed. If the Yale women are not the #1 seed and end up winning the event, Princeton Coach Banghart, who was quite outspoken when her dominant #1 team had to play at the Palestra last year, may be even more outspoken at this year's event.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3906

Reg: 11-22-04
02-13-19 01:12 PM - Post#276180    
    In response to rbg

those all could be issues, but i imagine as long as media and, especially, donors, are taken care of, it will be fine. I'm gonna be very comfortable watching on the couch (assuming Penn makes it. Otherwise maybe i'll watch 20 mins of he final)

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 21383

Reg: 11-21-04
02-13-19 01:13 PM - Post#276182    
    In response to Jeff2sf

I bought tickets long in advance. If Penn does not make it, there will be plenty of tickets (including mine) on StubHub.

 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1557
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
02-15-19 03:04 PM - Post#276517    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:
The problem is the ILT doesn't exist for fairness or fan interest (including 4th place drama). It's for branding and TV rights. Showcasing the league's campuses (regardless of appropriate venue) and exposure through selection Sunday final for Men and Women is the stated goal.



The problem with that, however, is that they blew it sky high by scheduling the tournament for a time when, to put it politely, no one is paying any attention. I think the final test of whether the league office has any clue about marketing is what happens in a couple of years when Princeton joins the 20th century and moves to exams before Christmas. If they don’t at least move the whole season up one week, then we know they’re hopeless. Even at that, of course, there will still be a lot of other tournaments finishing at the same time, and we’ll be fighting to be heard through the noise. If you’re going to sell out, you can’t just do it a little bit; you’ve got to go all in and end this thing on, say, a Tuesday night, when you really will be the main attraction.

  • Jeff2sf Said:
the fact that the women don't seem to WANT it together should be the only priority that matters.



Regarding the women, first I must retract my statement that no one else plays both tournaments in the same place and the same time. Besides us, there are nine conferences that play them at exactly the same place and time, four more where at least the later rounds overlap, and three others where they are played in the same place but staggered in such a way that at least some of the rounds are on different days. That’s over half the leagues in D1. Most of these are played at neutral sites, so I assume a large part of the motivation is to save money on arena rent (which, of course, then brings up the question of whether renting an arena is worth it, but anyhoo. . .)

I don’t know if it’s so much about playing them at the same place per se as it is about not wanting to be overshadowed and getting last pick of playing times. Under the current format, however, it’s not realistic to expect anything else. Playing at the top seed would guarantee a decent crowd and it would allow for more convenient scheduling for those who follow the women. My perception is that there’s not much overlap between the two fanbases, so it wouldn’t be inconvenient for that many people. If you absolutely have to have them in the same place, another option would be to play the women’s semis on Friday night, then the finals on Saturday night after the men’s semis in the afternoon. That way you get better playing times and still keep the men’s games in the right times for ESPN.

David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1557
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
02-15-19 03:12 PM - Post#276518    
    In response to SteveChop

  • SteveChop Said:
Cameron (modeled on the Palestra and built one year later)



Thirteen years; Cameron opened in 1940.

  • HarvardDadGrad Said:
As a fan I like what Harvard did to Lavietes, it sure doesn't look like the second oldest college basketball arena still in use (next to Fordham's Rose Hill gym).



To begin, it’s the third oldest; Matthews Arena at Northeastern is now the oldest (more about that in a minute). Second, it’s the third-oldest in D1; there are gyms in other divisions that are older as well. Second, even in relation to D1, it would be more accurate to describe it as “the third-oldest building currently being used for basketball.” Of course, it was originally built as Briggs Cage, and was an indoor practice facility for the various outdoor teams in the winter; it wasn’t used for hoops until the 1980’s. Matthews, of course, is also cheating, because that was built (and is still used) as a hockey rink, and their basketball team also only started playing there in the 80’s.

  • Palestra38 Said:
I still have no idea why Harvard killed the new arena that was planned. It's not as though it doesn't have the money.



These articles have some good background. As you can see from the Crimson article, the intention was to build the arena as part of a larger complex which would have included retail and housing, at the intersection of Harvard Street and Western Avenue. From what I understand, the neighborhood was not thrilled about this, and given how much the University has already been portrayed as a monster trying to swallow all of Allston, they may have decided that it wasn’t worth the grief. Also, whether out of actual financial stress or mere prudence, Harvard seems to be very conservative about approving construction right now; they must have at least most of the money needed for a project in hand before they’re willing to give the go-ahead. I also have to wonder whether there isn’t some ambivalence remaining in the administration about the way the program is going. Whatever the answer, given that they’ve now plowed a lot of money into Lavietes, it doesn’t seem likely that they will turn around and build a whole new arena any time soon. The Friend of Harvard Basketball quoted in the Crimson attempts to claim that the University was never actually committed to building a new arena, but the language from the master plan quoted in the Harvard Magazine article seems awfully specific and the product of too much deliberation to be a mere “placeholder.” I’m sure that Mr. James, HarvardDadGrad, and others can fill in more details if they feel at liberty to.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
SteveChop 
Masters Student
Posts: 801

Reg: 07-28-07
02-15-19 04:57 PM - Post#276530    
    In response to dperry

Sorry about the incorrect info on Cameron. I may have been thinking about Hinkle Field House (Butler) which has a steel girder roof like the Palestra and is very similar.

As for the renovations to Lavietes, I think it still looks like a high school gym, especially with no seats at either end court. And have you ever tried to go to the men's room - there are 2 urinals and 2 toilets and, for a while, only one men's room in the whole gym. Even allowing for the community pressure David refers to above, with the amount of money Harvard has available, they could have done a much better job.



 
LyleGold 
Masters Student
Posts: 885

Reg: 11-22-04
It's trees stupid!
02-15-19 06:19 PM - Post#276542    
    In response to SteveChop

  • SteveChop Said:
Sorry about the incorrect info on Cameron. I may have been thinking about Hinkle Field House (Butler) which has a steel girder roof like the Palestra and is very similar.

As for the renovations to Lavietes, I think it still looks like a high school gym, especially with no seats at either end court. And have you ever tried to go to the men's room - there are 2 urinals and 2 toilets and, for a while, only one men's room in the whole gym. Even allowing for the community pressure David refers to above, with the amount of money Harvard has available, they could have done a much better job.





Steve, as you probably know, the great Philadelphia architecture firm, Trumbauer, designed both the Palestra and Cameron. However, it was historically considered a Trumbauer project since the chief architect was an African-American Penn grad who never got the full credit he deserved for the design, which probably reflected the southern mores of the time. Although Cameron more resembles Rose Hill Gym at Fordham and even the Cat House at Villanova, your comparison with the Palestra was not totally off base.

Now it's off to the Palestra to begin the weekend sweep that could launch us back into the ILT fray.


 
weinhauers_ghost 
PhD Student
Posts: 1388

Age: 59
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
02-15-19 08:15 PM - Post#276548    
    In response to LyleGold

Sloppy start offensively and defensively. Too many turnovers, and we got beat on two back door cuts to the basket.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 9359

Reg: 12-07-04
02-16-19 09:53 PM - Post#276894    
    In response to PennFan10

They had their chances. No excuses. Live by the 3 and die by the 3.

 
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