91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-16-19 09:12 AM - Post#276683
In response to Quakers03
That was a total make up call. It should have been a no call but they had missed two badly, one on the offensive end and one on the defensive end. D should be upset by that b/c that is bad officiating.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Dartmouth 02-16-19 09:44 AM - Post#276685
In response to Mike Porter
I just felt in particular on the defensive end given Dartmouth’s spacing and three-point shooting, I had no one that he could match up with, and on the offensive end, he just wasn’t a big enough advantage
Interpretation : Wang's ankle is still bothering him enough to try to avoid him playing back-to-back games. We're far inferior without him - a healthy Wang would be the 2nd best player on the team. Bryce may be 2nd best right now given Wang's current form. Though Woods is so good on the defensive end to make up for up-and-down play on the offensive end.
It's harrowing to watch this team. The highs are high and the lows are low. I get that it's due to injuries - Betley's loss stings, Wang is maybe 80%, Rothschild is gutting it out as best he can - but it still gives me indigestion.
Edited by TheLine on 02-16-19 09:47 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32877
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Dartmouth 02-16-19 10:02 AM - Post#276687
In response to TheLine
I agree with you...Wang's "unfavorable matchups" were no less favorable than when AJ took a rest and Max had to D-up Knight. That big doofy guy with the curly hair who came in when Knight rested (who missed 2 FTs as badly as Pettinella) would have been perfect to put Wang on and have him take him outside. Also, in warmups, Wang never ran---while everyone else was jamming and running around, he just walked and took set shots. It seems to me there still is a physical issue.
I wonder what AJ will have in the tank after that All-World effort yesterday. But no one in this league can stop him---he still has to kick it out sometimes to allow the shooters to stay in rhythm and keep the defenses honest. I couldn't believe he didn't pass out of the triple team on the last play of regulation--we had 2 guys wide open on the 3 point line.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-16-19 10:08 AM - Post#276688
In response to TheLine
Interpretation : Wang's ankle is still bothering him enough to try to avoid him playing back-to-back games.
Wang took 16 shots in 26 minutes against Yale, and only made 3. Guys are gonna have nights where they’re cold from beyond the arc, as he was there (and as Bryce was too) but he was 1-7 on 2s, and those were almost entirely forced bad shots. And he was pretty bad on D too. It wasn’t getting abused physically by Bruner and Copeland, either—again, that can happen to a young guy—it was missing reads on switches and rotations.
I’d bet the benching last night had nothing to do with injury, but was about more than just matchups—perhaps a little freshman refresher on decision-making on the floor motivated Donahue’s decision.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Dartmouth 02-16-19 10:08 AM - Post#276689
In response to Chip Bayers
Interpretation : Wang's ankle is still bothering him enough to try to avoid him playing back-to-back games.
Wang took 16 shots in 26 minutes against Yale, and only made 3. Guys are gonna have nights where they’re cold from beyond the arc, as he was there (and as Bryce was too) but he was 1-7 on 2s, and those were almost entirely forced bad shots. And he was pretty bad on D too. It wasn’t just getting abused physically by Bruner and Copeland [edit: I mean Atkinson] either—again, that can happen to a young guy—it was missing reads on switches and rotations.
I’d bet the benching last night had nothing to do with injury, but was about more than just matchups—perhaps a little freshman refresher on decision-making on the floor motivated Donahue’s decision.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 02-16-19 10:23 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32877
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Dartmouth 02-16-19 10:16 AM - Post#276690
In response to Chip Bayers
Could be---but how can we ever figure that Steve will throw Ray Jerome out there for 2 wide open 3s and then not see the court again? Just assumed he would get no respect for a couple of shots. It's why he's a great coach.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-16-19 10:20 AM - Post#276691
In response to Chip Bayers
Guys, There is NO injury issues on the team. Wang’s ankle sprain almost 2 months ago was a minor, low ankle sprain that was a 7-10 day thing. He has not been limited or affected by it, physically in well over a month. Max’s back was bad in December and better, but not perfect by early January. Since the 2nd Princeton game he has been pretty much 100%.
I don’t know what SD is thinking as to the rotations (e.g. why does Jackson play 2 minutes in the first half of every game and then sit? A Ray Jerome sighting but no Kuba since Temple? Jarrod and then no Jarrod?) but I am pretty sure injuries to those two players are not part of the consideration.
I would be shocked if we didn’t see a heavy dose of Mike Wang tonight. That matchup with Robert Baker is tailor made for him.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-16-19 10:27 AM - Post#276692
In response to PennFan10
AntiUngvar seems to have received the boot from the boards, but he is making his presence known via twitter with a shout out to Chip and SomeGuy, bit congrats to you two for expanding your social media profiles and spilling this over:
https://twitter.com/BayRidgeBoy1954/statu s/1095388...
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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02-16-19 10:41 AM - Post#276695
In response to PennFan10
Whatever the reason Wang had the DNP, they will need him tonight. And others to step up.
Last year's freshman class does seem a total bust. It's a shame.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2144
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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02-16-19 11:01 AM - Post#276699
In response to OldBig5
Whatever the reason Wang had the DNP, they will need him tonight. And others to step up.
Last year's freshman class does seem a total bust. It's a shame.
The biggest hit was Williams' second ACL injury.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4366
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-16-19 11:53 AM - Post#276703
In response to OldBig5
I trust that Steve was being truthful about the DNP but like others I found it curious. I thought Max, among others, had a poor game. He did not attack on offense when he had opportunities and struggled as AJ did against Knight. Plus we had trouble keeping the smaller Dartmouth team off the offensive boards and gave them multiple second chance opportunities.
I trust the coach, but ..... And we lucked out in the end.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-16-19 12:07 PM - Post#276706
In response to AsiaSunset
I have no answers for why Max had 0 interest in attacking the basket but it was disturbing.
AJ began the spree with a beautiful lefty finish. That only helps to open everything else up.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-16-19 12:10 PM - Post#276707
In response to PennFan10
AntiUngvar seems to have received the boot from the boards, but he is making his presence known via twitter with a shout out to Chip and SomeGuy, bit congrats to you two for expanding your social media profiles and spilling this over:
https://twitter.com/BayRidgeBoy1954/statu s/1095388...
Bay Ridge. Figures.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Dartmouth 02-16-19 12:35 PM - Post#276713
In response to palestra38
Looked like the benching came after Ray’s bad turnover that led to an easy fast break basket for Dartmouth. Pretty sure Ray compounded the turnover by failing to pick up the right guy (or perhaps failing to get back at all) on defense. Sistare scored, Silpe appeared to be yelling at somebody (or maybe everybody, as he was the only one who got back), and Donahue called timeout. Out of the timeout, no more Ray.
That said, those two baskets were key, and as with Kuba, we have had a couple of instances of Ray suddenly appearing in the rotation and playing pretty well.
Maybe the plan yesterday was to just use him and Donahue in the first half anyway, but with no Wang it gets tough playing an iron six in an overtime game. If he really was a healthy matchup scratch, Donahue showed an almost inconceivable amount of fortitude (to use a nice word) in sticking to the plan through an 11 point deficit, OT, etc.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3781
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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02-16-19 12:53 PM - Post#276715
In response to SomeGuy
Very few things are only one thing. I imagine that the Wang DNP was driven by a variety of factors.
1) Steve's matchup explanation is plausible, I guess, but I find that an uncompellling rationale by itself.
2) The 'tweaked his ankle' explanation seems to hold some water. Observational data (I gather he wasn't running during warmups last night?) supports it. Also, the fact that he didn't even play in OT seems consistent with this argument.
3) The 'he plays poorly on Saturday after playing a lot of minutes on Friday' explanation seems highly plausible to me. Empirically, we have multiple data points to support it.
Put all three of the above reasons together and you have a pretty good case for keeping him out last night. Let's hope he lights Harvard up tonight.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Dartmouth 02-16-19 12:57 PM - Post#276716
In response to SomeGuy
SomeGuy, that's why I'm suspicious about Wang's DNP.
He did move better last weekend but still wasn't moving like he was before the injury, which could both be "minor" and throwing off his game enough to want to limit his minutes in back-to-back games.
When he plays tonight I'm going to find it tough to believe that Harvard somehow presents better matchups for him than Dartmouth did.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-16-19 04:34 PM - Post#276734
In response to TheLine
Other than is feelings, Wang is not hurt, not even a little. I was surprised he was a DNP but it had nothing to do with his physical condition.
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2215
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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02-16-19 05:25 PM - Post#276737
In response to PennFan10
Other than is feelings, Wang is not hurt, not even a little. I was surprised he was a DNP but it had nothing to do with his physical condition.
Yes, if he was hurt, there's no way Donahue wouldn't have mentioned that instead of throwing him under the bus.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3066
Reg: 10-20-14
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02-16-19 06:30 PM - Post#276741
In response to dperry
I don't know if anyone has linked to this DP article from last night that has Coach Donahue's explanation about Wang.
https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/02/penn- mens-ba...
- Notably lacking for the Quakers was freshman forward Michael Wang, who failed to see the court at all on Friday night. Donahue insisted that this was purely for matchup purposes.
“I just felt in particular on the defensive end given Dartmouth’s spacing and three-point shooting, I had no one that he could match up with, and on the offensive end, he just wasn’t a big enough advantage,†Donahue said. -
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2144
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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02-16-19 07:36 PM - Post#276755
In response to rbg
Reading between the lines, SD wants to see him play better.
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