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Username Post: Yale        (Topic#22643)
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3399

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
02-14-19 07:56 PM - Post#276407    

SNYHD
west coast fan


 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2201

Reg: 10-09-09
02-14-19 08:04 PM - Post#276409    
    In response to internetter

FWIW, KP says Yale by 8.

 
Tod Howard Hawks 
Freshman
Posts: 64

Age: 79
Reg: 03-17-14
02-15-19 09:36 PM - Post#276591    
    In response to cc66

As I post this, Yale is up by 16 points over Columbia with around 10 minutes left to play in the game, and I am debating whether to watch any more of it.

The Ivy season is about half over and Columbia is about where I thought they would be in the Ivy standings--dead last, which is where I predict they will also be at the end of the season.

When a Columbia opponent can essentially silence Stefanini and Adlesh, as Yale is doing tonight, why even play the game.

Further, neither Brumant nor Barba (who made one 3 in the first half) are very good shooters, from any range. So why are they getting so much playing time?

I do have to wonder what is going through the mind of Pilling as he personally witnesses this debacle, in what has been, with few exceptions, a series of debacles under Engels' tutelage. I guess we'll find out very soon.

I've decided I'm not going to watch any more of this game against Yale. It's just too painful.


 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2201

Reg: 10-09-09
02-15-19 10:15 PM - Post#276651    
    In response to Tod Howard Hawks

Todd:

Well, if you turned it off, you missed our comeback, when after being down 18, we tied it at 62, with about 3 minutes remaining, only to lose 70-64. Adlesh with 23, Stefanini with 14, Tape with 9, and Barba with 9, including the first 3 Columbia 3s. It was gutsy performance, especially with Tape in there, when we played up to Yale's level. But no one can stop Oni, and we slipped behind in the end.



 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2163

Reg: 02-14-06
02-15-19 11:32 PM - Post#276664    
    In response to cc66

Todd, you missed an exciting double digit comeback in the last few minutes of game. Adlesh is an outstanding outside shooter and once he realized that he couldn't score from inside against Yale, he started shooting more threes and that almost led to a Lion victory. Unfortunately, Columbia made a couple of mistakes in the final couple minutes of the game that led to another final minute loss. One of the most obvious mistakes, as Dr. Giannini noted after the game, was that someone forgot to instruct Stefanini not to drive against Yale when he had the ball with about a minute remaining in the game. Dr. Giannini, who is the former LaSalle College coach said that 99% of the time what Stefanini did tonight was the correct thing to do, but not against a Yale team with one of the best defenders in the country in Oni. Before that we had the usual game problems that Dr. Gianinni and others have cited in the past--Nweke and Brumant playing outside the circle, Tape not getting the ball enough; Stefanini having to play the point in Smith's absence due to lack of depth at that position. That problem has surfaced repeatedly at the end of several games this season. Stefanini gets called upon to take the final shot(s) for Columbia, but because his natural position is that of a shooting guard and not a point guard, he seems uncomfortable attacking the basket while precious seconds come off the clock. That is obviously the right coaching strategy when the score is tied, but not when you are losing. Don't get me wrong, I love Stefanini and this Lion team for their fight. They give 100%. But behind every successful fighter there is a smart manager. Let's hope that we fight a little smarter against our Ivy League opponents the rest of the season.

 
Tod Howard Hawks 
Freshman
Posts: 64

Age: 79
Reg: 03-17-14
02-16-19 12:26 AM - Post#276675    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

To cc66 and Columbia 37P6: Thank you for your posts. I am ambivalent about what you both told me in that, on the one hand, I am glad Columbia made a game out of it, but on the other, the story of this game is as painful, if not more painful, than all the other near misses Columbia has had this year, which leaves me (and Pilling as well, perhaps) at the same emotional place I was in at the end of my earlier post above.


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
02-16-19 08:48 AM - Post#276681    
    In response to Tod Howard Hawks

My guess is that with Meisner and Smith we would have been at or near the top of the league. I have not been a fan of the coaching style, or recent retention rates/defections, or recruiting results, of JE, but I am relatively confident that Peter Pilling is taking those factors into consideration in deciding whether JE gets another year. I also think he is taking into consideration the fact that our guys are giving it all that they have and that the parents of the current players seem to be behind the staff. This is certainly not a Mangurian type situation.


 
Tod Howard Hawks 
Freshman
Posts: 64

Age: 79
Reg: 03-17-14
02-16-19 09:30 AM - Post#276684    
    In response to Chet Forte

Chet, I agree with you that the players are giving it their all, and that, for me, is the most painful part of this season. I feel terribly for the players, but I still think Columbia will still be in the cellar at the end of this season. And I don't see any blue skies forming over Columbia basketball in the coming years with Engles continuing as our head coach. The buck, as they say, stops with Engles. I wish my prognostications prove to be untrue, but so far I've been spot on.


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
02-16-19 10:56 AM - Post#276697    
    In response to Tod Howard Hawks

I hear you Todd, but I am trying to see the situation as Peter Pilling is likely to see it. And unless he is aware of issues which have eluded me for one, I would expect that JE will get one more year to turn it around. Ultimately this decision will be made in consultation with Lee Bollinger and perhaps a few key trustees or former trustees, and perhaps significant MBB donors. Unlike football, in which we have made a major commitment to upgrade facilities, salaries, recruiting budgets, etc., I am not sure if the same commitment is there for MBB. If it were, I imagine we could have kept Kyle Smith.


 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2163

Reg: 02-14-06
02-16-19 10:57 AM - Post#276698    
    In response to Tod Howard Hawks

I agree with you Tod. Columbia is likely to finish in the Ivy League cellar this year and next unless Engles is replaced. And why stop there as we lose Tape, Smith and maybe our transfer center at the end of next season. Our incoming recruits are promising, but no more so than our competition. Barring the team winning nearly all of its remaining games I cannot imagine Pilling bringing back Engles for another season. When Penn and Princeton had similar coaching problems, the athletic director took appropriate action. Why is Columbia's situation any different?

 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2201

Reg: 10-09-09
02-16-19 11:58 AM - Post#276704    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

I disagree. It is true that we could well lose all of our remaining games, though I have some hopes for Brown tonight and maybe Dartmouth at home on the last weekend. But we are going to be better next year--maybe even much better, with Tape, Smith, and Stefanini as quality players, plus a really good backup point guard in Turner, a developing Onuama, and continued improvement in Bibbs, Brumant, and Nweke.

We lost Meisner and Smith. What's left of the team is gutsy and playing considerably better (just look at the decline in their DRAT from the beginning of the season to now), but not yet good enough to win close games. In sum, I think we should all be cautious about adopting the reflexive college fan posture that since we can't fire the players, the least we can do is fire the coach.



 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
02-16-19 12:41 PM - Post#276714    
    In response to cc66

Does anyone have the statistical wherewithal to isolate the DRAT before and after Smith got hurt? Just eyeballing how the number/rank has improved, it looks like they went from a very bad defensive team to a pretty good one. That progression may have nothing to do with Smith, but one issue for Columbia in recent years has been finding the right mix of guys to play both offense and defense. I wonder if being forced to play without him enables Engles to figure out what they need to do to defend, and then they can figure out how add Mike back in next year and get an offensive boost without compromising the defense.

 
whitakk 
Masters Student
Posts: 523

Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
02-16-19 04:04 PM - Post#276729    
    In response to SomeGuy

Bart Torvik has Columbia's adjusted defensive efficiency at 112 until Smith's injury (which would be bottom-50 in D-I over a full season) and 104 since (roughly 200th of 353).

http://barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Columbia

However, some regression was due regardless -- in particular, opponents were shooting 42% from three with Smith on the court, which has come down to 34% since. Given how many three-point attempts Columbia allows (which is a problem in its own right), my back-of-envelope math says 3P% accounts for basically all of the improvement in defensive efficiency.

Offensive efficiency has slipped from about 102 to 98 (~200th to 275th), FWIW.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
02-16-19 05:23 PM - Post#276735    
    In response to whitakk

While Mike had obvious problems in guarding taller players, he has great hands and could usually be counted on for picking up a few steals in most games. He was also usually the fastest guy on the court. So whatever his defensive shortcomings he was a tremendous asset offensively and one of the most entertaining players in the IL. While the loss of Meisner was probably more significant, I would not underestimate for a minute how crippling a loss it was when Mike went down because he was capable of taking over a game when he was on.


 
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