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Username Post: Colgate Game        (Topic#22673)
Shot Clock 
Masters Student
Posts: 883

Loc: Arlington VA
Reg: 01-27-06
02-20-19 11:07 AM - Post#277296    
    In response to jkrun80

  • jkrun80 Said:
And if I have to watch another ad for heart failure medication I'm going to scream. Interesting juxtaposition with the Wendy's cholesterol bomb ad.



LOL. Seeing the same ads over and over (even in the same commercial break) was beyond annoying.
B.A. Bucknell University, 1993


 
res 
Masters Student
Posts: 839

Reg: 03-21-06
02-20-19 11:42 AM - Post#277297    
    In response to jkrun80

  • jkrun80 Said:
And if I have to watch another ad for heart failure medication I'm going to scream. Interesting juxtaposition with the Wendy's cholesterol bomb ad.



Not really. They're complementary goods, as I learned at Bucknell.


 
Bison89 
Professor
Posts: 5370
Bison89
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
Colgate Game
02-20-19 04:47 PM - Post#277323    
    In response to res

I have had enough time to calm down. Unfortunately, this team has regressed, and certain teams in the PL have improved with Colgate being one of them.

I can never doubt Sestina's and Toomer's work ethic, but for some reason, they are not playing smart basketball. When they are not in the game and/or not able to play hard, their game and the game of the overall team suffers. Mackenzie cannot be expected to carry the team every game. It is not realistic.

In addition, Coach Davis, who studied under Pat Flannery the wizard of the matchup zone, seems to be a one-trick pony on D. Man-to-man is not always the solution. When you cannot guard players one-on-one, how about trying a ZONE defense? Other teams can change their D during a game, why can't the Bison change now and then?

Coach Davis has won a ton of games. He is a proven winner. While I am pretty sure that we all agree that he is one of the better PL coaches, I think that his game needs to step up if he wants the Bison to continue to win with the frequency that we are used to.

GO BISON!!!
New season, new team, new dream . . .


 
bison63 
Postdoc
Posts: 3857

Reg: 01-23-06
02-21-19 02:17 AM - Post#277349    
    In response to Bison89

Whoa now, team has regressed? Two games ago we had just completed a streak of 5 games capped off with the defeat of a team that had beaten us earlier, followed by a second win over our primary competition for the PL title. Having what looked like a comfortable lead at that time, it is possible that the team lost a bit of its edge, but regressed, while the others are getting better? I think not! Granted Colgate is coming on, but one win over us only proves what we have known all along, any team can beat any team, and certainly any good team can beat any other good team. Not time to panic yet. If we lose on Sunday, it’s a different story.

 
Old Bison 
Masters Student
Posts: 619

Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
02-21-19 09:41 AM - Post#277360    
    In response to bison63

Tx 63...think your response is clearly the more cogent. Also think the road home with respect to the 3 leading team’s remaining schedule iin terms of DoD is CU/BU/LU. While road games are normally the most threatening I still think our toughest remaining game is home vs Army. Would not like to have LU’s remaining away games at AU & Loyola. Losing at HC was a real stub of the toe but a game we seemed to still
have won DESPITE 23 TO’s and PF’s. I believe Sotos has only hit two 3’s since getting injured (to lazy to go back and look at his stats since AU but it can’t be good. Win 3 and we get the 1 seed. WRT 89 I must admit that I believe the use of zone tactically to change tempo, obviate bad matchups and protect Nate/Bruce & Avi (who are all normally in some degree off PF trouble) is one of the discussion points the Board is perfect for discussing. Funny that Paulson and ND are off the absolute same mindset. It was clear to me that Langell was coming right after us in the paint considering his personnel. OTOH everyone in CU and LU can shoot 3’s so it’s pick your poison. I however think there’s a big distinction btw PLAYING zone and employing it tactically to address the 3 issues above. Funny thing about coaches which I cannot argue with is they like to decide how they are either going to keep their job or lose. Most over time develop a system and philosophy they not only believe in, but also one they like to recruit and coach too and I don’t think you can blame them. It’s the old saw about “dancing with what brung ya”. It’s not for the faint of heart. I do know one thing...I wouldn’t like to have to win the PL tourney at Cotterel although clearly we could. Sorry for my closing cliches but it’s why you have to play 40 minutes every time out. Think we’ll be fine but that’s why you gotta play the games! I’ll tell you one thing...league tourney’s will be played and people will come out that nobody expected and I would note that I didn’t hear anything about Coach K not knowing his job after losing to LU and the black and orange team (mental block) in the round of 64.


 
Old Bison 
Masters Student
Posts: 619

Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
02-21-19 09:48 AM - Post#277367    
    In response to Old Bison

Also wanted to add that when a team scores 75 on you...shoots 48% from 2 and 50+% from 3 and draws 17 PF’s then it’s clear our MTM didn’t scare them. Can they replicate that at Sojka toe to toe again? I know two things; if it comes to pass, we’re not winning by 29 this year and first we gotta get there. GO BISON...I love March!

 
Bison89 
Professor
Posts: 5370
Bison89
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
02-21-19 11:44 AM - Post#277380    
    In response to Old Bison

  • Old Bison Said:
. . . I didn’t hear anything about Coach K not knowing his job after losing to LU and the black and orange team (mental block) in the round of 64.



I never once mentioned that Coach Davis does not know his job. In fact, I complimented him as being very successful and one of the best coaches in the PL.

I'm just stating the obvious that our man-to-man was not effective against Colgate. Therefore, why didn't the head coach try something different?
New season, new team, new dream . . .


 
Bison137 
Professor
Posts: 16147
Bison137
Reg: 01-23-06
02-21-19 12:31 PM - Post#277383    
    In response to Bison89

I agree 100% that BU should have a zone available as a tactical maneuver. BU is the only team in the league that doesn't use one - and there have been many occasions in recent years where PL teams have gone successfully to zone when M2M was not working.

One interesting thing is that ND used a fair amount of match-up zone his first year at BU and in the first part of his second year. When Nate Jones, then a starter, got hurt - which necessitated putting a freshman into the starting lineup - the zone vanished , maybe because the match-up is complicated to do properly. Possibly a coincidence, but I doubt it. The zone reappeared briefly vs West Virginia, but has not been seen again. Note that Jones had returned and played major minutes vs WVU.




 
MrPhillie 
Postdoc
Posts: 2757
MrPhillie
Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
02-21-19 12:40 PM - Post#277384    
    In response to Bison137

It just makes sense to have a few different looks in your arsenal for when things are not going well or you have to protect because of fouls (which nobody can deny is a major problem for certain players.) But also, during these latest losses, one thing is consistent: poor shooting, especially from 3. Not going to win a ton of games when nearly half of your attempts are from 3 and you shoot 28-30%. I wish our half-court offense was better, but that will not change at this point.

 
bison63 
Postdoc
Posts: 3857

Reg: 01-23-06
02-21-19 02:18 PM - Post#277396    
    In response to MrPhillie

No argument from me on wanting to see different defensive looks. Echo 137’s comments on ND’s use of the matchup. I was surprised when he dropped given the success the Bison had with it in the Flannery era, which ND was part of. He did drop it for the reasons 137 stated, but I am puzzled as to why he never went back to it.

 
DoCtoR62 
Masters Student
Posts: 463

Reg: 05-18-08
02-21-19 03:54 PM - Post#277412    
    In response to MrPhillie

There's a saying out there that says if you are looking for perfection, you will never be happy. We might want to have that as the tagline for this forum.

Other teams in the PL may switch b/w man and zone. Given that Holy Cross employed the 1-3-1 throughout its tournament run, none of those teams has won a championship in at least 3 years.

As for any references to the match up zone, if you are not a good man team you will be a horrible match up zone team ... it is predicated on strong man principles. I'm guessing the coaching staff has its reasons why no other types zone and I will trust the track record.

It's a long season. The key to the final weeks is entering the tournament with good legs. Thought the team was mentally flat on Saturday, and physically flat on Monday. Few of these players were asked to play the critical roles they now have in previous years. Agree Sunday is a HUGE game. Contending for the PL championship starts with taking care of the home court.


 
Old Bison 
Masters Student
Posts: 619

Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
02-21-19 05:02 PM - Post#277421    
    In response to DoCtoR62

89 I didn’t mean you personally but rather the sports media industry in general...the point being you can’t be questioning coaching when you LOSE 1 GAME as a contributing factor. The coach is in a suit and the players play and X and 0’s only take you so far. Jay won the National Championship but then FOUR players got drafted in the first round. Which was more contributory to Nova’s championship...the players playing or Jay selecting defenses. I was being supportive of your issue because I feel a different look at times if someone’s on a roll can really be effective in making them stop and have to reset and adapt. Doc’s Point about none of those teams winning a championship is a great one but then you have to consider the inverse of my question of how contributory is that on the final outcome vs the players performance? Isn’t the point that it’s about % basketball and trying something tactically to POTENTIALLY reverse the win/loss ratio. However, if the opposing team comes down and hits 3 straight 3’s the switch to zone appears a monumental F up. I do know as 63 and 137 have stated, that playing matchup correctly isn’t easy. Pat was always screaming about getting overextended in it and I’m also aware he helps Christian in the offseason with what the proper slides and release points are. I’ll finish by saying one thing...everytime we’ve shot 50+ from the floor ND has been a great coach. I also know if you over rely on three you’ll shoot yourself to a loss as easily as a win and that’s why I think tactical changes are always warranted...i.e., what works one night might not work the next. If you talk to a system he would probably say I’m trying “to time the market” and any changes could exacerbate your problem as opposed to being constructive. Not easy being a coach as fans are very fickle!

 
Old Bison 
Masters Student
Posts: 619

Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
02-21-19 05:04 PM - Post#277422    
    In response to Old Bison

System coach

 
bison63 
Postdoc
Posts: 3857

Reg: 01-23-06
02-21-19 08:08 PM - Post#277431    
    In response to DoCtoR62

  • DoCtoR62 Said:
I'm guessing the coaching staff has its reasons why no other types zone and I will trust the track record



Amen!

 
crd012 
Junior
Posts: 262

Age: 35
Reg: 12-02-12
02-21-19 08:15 PM - Post#277432    
    In response to bison63

I agree. The fact that Davis doesn’t play any zone is frustrating especially when it makes sense. For example, last year in the tourney when we played Mich State all you had to do was read about how they were awful against zone defenses. I knew it and didn’t scout them. But Davis still refused to play zone even though he had time to prep the team. Mich State then lost the very next game to Syracuse...because they play zone. Mich State was awful offensively.

Now with our team really struggling to stay away from fouling it would make sense to mix in zone here and there...at the very least as a change up. Coaches should be flexible...it’s frustrating when you see no flexibility.

 
nitlion 
Masters Student
Posts: 413

Reg: 06-18-06
02-21-19 08:29 PM - Post#277437    
    In response to bison63

wnen the Bison played the matchup, we always did better out of conference, as those teams couldn't prepare for the defense, all the league opponents were always ready, nothing they hadn't seen. it is tough to teach and even with Nathan and John Griffin teaching, they for whatever reason feel more comfortable with mostly man with a rare zone, it is what has worked and for the most part quite well. turnovers, and foul trouble, Nate, have hurt the flow of our game, we just need someone to step up at those times, go in an compete, I would match our team top to bottom with every team in the league. I don't think a trip back and forth to HC and a quick turn around to Colgate helped, but we will see how the rested Bison perform on Sunday.

 
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