SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-23-19 01:35 PM - Post#277679
In response to Streamers
I think Defense has been an issue for both in Ivy play. That said, Defense was a strength for Bryce prior to Ivy play. Both guys defend well when we are playing athletes being athletes, and less well when things get a little more bogged down in the half court.
However, while I was an early proponent (after the loss at Cornell) of playing our veterans more to try to play better Defense and have more poise late, I think we have now moved too far in the other direction. Last night, we played 3 seniors and 3 juniors when it mattered. While we played a stretch of good Defense there at the end of regulation and in OT, overall the results were the same — generally bad Defense and a seeming inability to play with enough poise to make that one play to get us over the top. Now that the season is precariously close to over, I would like to see us recognizing that these guys are our future and playing them more again. Bryce has hit so many big shots for us this year. In a tight one, I would have liked to see him out there with a chance to hit a dagger shot.
That said, I loved seeing Ray Jerome play the way he did. I think he was playing a little bit of the Caleb Woods role on offense, which was interesting. Reinforcements are coming with injured returnees and recruits next year, but I think Ray should be in the conversation about who will get playing time at guard when Woods and Silpe graduate.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12524
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-23-19 04:14 PM - Post#277689
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Everything else aside can someone please help me understand what Dev was doing taking that shot with a full 8 seconds left and 5+ on the shot clock? Was that when he was told to drive? If the plan is to just throw up a prayer you absolutely cannot let the opponent get it back with a full 7 seconds.
And I won’t bring myself to watch it, but was it Antonio who lost his man on the layup? Sigh. This should have been the most important game of the year tonight. Up 5...I will not get over that d possession that let it get to 2. They just stopped doing everything that had worked the prior 6.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32802
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-19 04:35 PM - Post#277694
In response to Quakers03
Antonio had played a great game until OT, but his turnover with the 2 point lead with 40 seconds left was something a freshman should never never commit, much less a 5th year senior. He simply gave it up for a length of the court easy layup and a tie. He then lost his man on the final play. I love him, but he cost us this game.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3583
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-23-19 04:52 PM - Post#277697
In response to palestra38
AJ missed a bunny in OT, Dev took an early shot and missed, we lost Ellis in rotation for an open 3. Lots of errors in OT to point to just one guy.
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13otto
Masters Student
Posts: 779
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
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Columbia
02-23-19 05:08 PM - Post#277698
In response to PennFan10
AJ missed a bunny in OT, Dev took an early shot and missed, we lost Ellis in rotation for an open 3. Lots of errors in OT to point to just one guy.
Agreed. The fact that, in our own building, the last place team in the league was even in the game made this loss a total team effort. While any one of those players could have won the game for us, no single player cost us the game.
Edited by 13otto on 02-23-19 05:10 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32802
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Columbia
02-23-19 05:57 PM - Post#277705
In response to 13otto
You two know better---and are just saying the old line about winning and losing being a team effort. Of course it is. But the reason last year's team won was that its seniors stepped up and didn't make the mistakes Antonio made last night when the game was in our hands. No one has been more of an Antonio fan than I. But you cannot deny what we saw. At crunch time, last year, Foreman made the plays. This year, we are not getting them. Of course, the loss of Betley (and to a lesser extent, I believe, Jelani) took away a huge amount of room for error. But still, we cannot lose a 6 point lead and a 5 point lead at home with a minute to go. The seniors must step up. And we have to be honest about it when they do not.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3583
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-23-19 06:02 PM - Post#277706
In response to palestra38
The final play call was Dev and AJ not Antonio. Last year it would have been Darnell. SD believes in Dev more than AW.
I agree AW has to own this. I’m sure he does.
This last place team was a miracle 3 away from winning at Harvard
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32802
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-19 06:09 PM - Post#277707
In response to PennFan10
Harvard is equally crippled by injury---but they have not lost the close ones. That's the difference between the good teams and the bad ones.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3583
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-23-19 06:14 PM - Post#277708
In response to palestra38
Or they have Bruce Aiken and we don’t.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3583
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-23-19 06:15 PM - Post#277709
In response to PennFan10
My point was Columbia and Dartmouth are not the normal last place teams. Maybe we are.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21192
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-23-19 08:05 PM - Post#277726
In response to Tiger69
It's more frustrating than that. Princeton went a total of 2-4 in OT games last year. Most of Princeton's other Ivy games were easily decided in one way or another.
Already, Penn is 1-4 in OT games this year with 4 games yet to play. Just about every Ivy league loss has come via OT and/or a complete breakdown after a late Penn lead or the game tied,
You are now experiencing the same frustration and disappointment that some of us Tiger fans felt about this time last year.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-19 08:09 PM - Post#277728
In response to SomeGuy
I think Defense has been an issue for both in Ivy play. That said, Defense was a strength for Bryce prior to Ivy play. Both guys defend well when we are playing athletes being athletes, and less well when things get a little more bogged down in the half court.
However, while I was an early proponent (after the loss at Cornell) of playing our veterans more to try to play better Defense and have more poise late, I think we have now moved too far in the other direction. Last night, we played 3 seniors and 3 juniors when it mattered. While we played a stretch of good Defense there at the end of regulation and in OT, overall the results were the same — generally bad Defense and a seeming inability to play with enough poise to make that one play to get us over the top. Now that the season is precariously close to over, I would like to see us recognizing that these guys are our future and playing them more again. Bryce has hit so many big shots for us this year. In a tight one, I would have liked to see him out there with a chance to hit a dagger shot.
That said, I loved seeing Ray Jerome play the way he did. I think he was playing a little bit of the Caleb Woods role on offense, which was interesting. Reinforcements are coming with injured returnees and recruits next year, but I think Ray should be in the conversation about who will get playing time at guard when Woods and Silpe graduate.
Completely agree and that’s why I was asking about their time. Hopefully different today.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-24-19 12:42 AM - Post#277781
In response to palestra38
I haven’t watched either play again, and we now have a win to replace the memory, but . . .. On AW’s turnover that led to the Barba score, while obviously AW should shoulder some blame, I thought that was a weird breakdown defensively on the run out that either results from very bad spacing on offense or from a lack of effort on defense. Where AW lost the ball, it shouldn’t result in an easy layup for the guy who took the ball away.
And on the inbounds, didn’t somebody fall down? Was Ellis even Woods’ guy? He got beat at the end, but it appeared that other things went wrong before that, and we were kind of scrambling.
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