HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-27-19 02:23 PM - Post#278237
In response to palestra38
I don’t get it. The P’s used to finish their basketball season on a Tuesday after everyone else. That’s hubris.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32871
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-27-19 02:32 PM - Post#278238
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
What's hubris? They gave it up to accomodate the tournament? What has Harvard given up ever?
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mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 514
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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02-27-19 02:48 PM - Post#278240
In response to palestra38
Even as a huge Cornell fan, the idea of having the tournament in Ithaca for any reason other than the Big Red won the league is madness. Oh, I get the marketing now.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2142
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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02-27-19 02:53 PM - Post#278241
In response to Chip Bayers
When in doubt, always opt for the stupidest #%$@ choice possible.
This boils it down to the essence.
Bonehead move.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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02-27-19 02:59 PM - Post#278242
In response to section110
So this league is so bush league & controlled by H/Y/P that its going to have its 8 team premier event in a 1600 mediocre high school gym.
It will be awesome to have one of the premier college basketball events played in a quaint gym on ESPN. It may push the 4 star high school recruits to join the IL. On top of that, it is an excellent cost saving move by a conferenece that is a little tight on cash.
What I really want to know if there is one of those late Winter blizzards in Ithaca, let's say on Saturday, does Robin and her merrymen follow the Ernie Banks motto == let's play 2 on Sunday as Selection Sunday will shortly follow. An alternative might be to actually find a High School gym somewehere.
On a serious note, the devil is always in the detail vs. the theorey behind IvyMadness.
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westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts: 196
Age: 43
Reg: 01-08-11
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02-27-19 03:06 PM - Post#278246
In response to weinhauers_ghost
When in doubt, always opt for the stupidest #%$@ choice possible.
This boils it down to the essence.
Bonehead move.
It's very sad, and crazy, that Penn, at the top of our cycle next year will have to play the tournament on Harvard's home court.
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mobrien
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
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02-27-19 03:28 PM - Post#278247
In response to westphillywarrior
Harvard had to play Penn at Penn last year despite being the top seed. The same thing could happen this year with Yale if we manage to catch them for the one seed.
This bellyaching about how unfair it is for Penn, at the top of their cycle, to have to potentially play a road game when Harvard will also be at the top of its cycle and has *only* had road games is a bit much.
Even as a Harvard fan, I love the Palestra and think the tourney should just be there. But it's not "unfair" for it to be at Harvard next year. Far, far from it.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32871
Reg: 11-21-04
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Future Ivy Tournaments
02-27-19 03:43 PM - Post#278252
In response to mobrien
Who said it was unfair? It's EXTREMELY "Fair". It's unwise to be playing this tournament at tiny arenas and more particularly playing it for 4 years in a row at Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth and Columbia.
And please, let's ease up with the tiebreaker nonsense last year. That was totally subjective and reflects no advantage at all. It was a tie under Ivy rules and the only difference was a subjective tiebreaker about as valid as a coin flip to see who would be seeded first in the tournament.
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-27-19 03:55 PM - Post#278256
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
I like you as a poster; but if the league were serious, it would not hold the (dual) tournament in a 1600 seat gym (or a 2100, 2200, 2500 or 2800 seat facility). I suspect if it required a reasonable capacity so students & fans could attend, Harvard would have a 5 to 6500 seat place before the rotation came back around to them.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32871
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-27-19 03:58 PM - Post#278257
In response to section110
I doubt it---they obviously believed that there was insufficient demand to make that worthwhile when they shelved the plan for such an arena 2 years ago.
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westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts: 196
Age: 43
Reg: 01-08-11
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Re: Future Ivy Tournaments
02-27-19 04:03 PM - Post#278260
In response to palestra38
EXTREMELY Fair? I'd call it EXTREMELY unfair. Every year.
The best tournament will be the year that the home team is not in it. But maybe they'll give the home team an automatic spot to improve the all important TV optics.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32871
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Future Ivy Tournaments
02-27-19 04:11 PM - Post#278262
In response to westphillywarrior
It's "fair" in the sense that everyone gets to host. That's the definition of fair. It is bad in terms of the fans and the interest in the event. But you cannot come up with a "fairer" solution.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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02-27-19 04:13 PM - Post#278264
In response to section110
It strikes me that a proponent of IvyMadness should not cxomplain about the logistics of the tournament on the premise that you got what you asked for -- IvyMadness. Suggestion is let's move onto the reality that nothing will change for the next 7 years unless someone comes to their senses which is highly highly unlikely.
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-27-19 04:17 PM - Post#278266
In response to bradley
I was an opponent of Ivy Madness. I have changed; the competition for the fourth spot holds my interest even when Penn isn't involved. No problem or suggestion that it is unfair to hold the tourney in Cambridge, New Haven, New York, Providence. Just hold it in a reasonable facility in those cities.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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02-27-19 04:21 PM - Post#278267
In response to section110
This decision was inevitable once Penn won last year.
Probably better choice than holding the event at Some Generic Antiseptic East Coast Arena.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-27-19 04:30 PM - Post#278270
In response to section110
The league is what it is. Most of its facilities are smaller. Lavietes is actually very very nice now. On TV, very little of an arena or seating is visible. Lavietes is the second oldest regularly used indoor basketball facility which is a nice story. Yes, it's older than the Palestra.
My understanding is that Harvard decided it was a priority to complete the renovation of the residential houses before possibly building a 6,000 seat arena. Logical.
Finally, Penn and Princeton can still play on a final Tuesday if they wish. They apparently wanted the tournament and thus decided to modify their schedules.
The angst over trekking to Hanover or Ithaca is extremely entertaining.
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-27-19 04:40 PM - Post#278272
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Lavieties seats 1636 people.
The building is older than the Palestra; but was not used for varsity basketball before the Palestra.
How many locker rooms are in the building; how many restrooms; how many concession stands?
It may be bright & clean; but so is every high school gym built in the last 10 years.
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-27-19 04:42 PM - Post#278273
In response to TheLine
If the league wants it in Boston, the Conte Forum is reasonably sized for the purpose & not generic or antiseptic.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Future Ivy Tournaments
02-27-19 04:45 PM - Post#278275
In response to section110
Good luck with that. And how is Dartmouth or Cornell coming up with a nearby arena that can seat 8000? If they can't then how can you force Harvard out of Lavietes?
I'm not saying that rotating the tournament across the league's home courts is a perfect solution, just an inevitable one. It isn't the end of the world and there isn't a perfect solution.
Edited by TheLine on 02-27-19 04:49 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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The Quad
Sophomore
Posts: 137
Reg: 12-16-04
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02-27-19 04:55 PM - Post#278276
In response to mobrien
If you recalL--it was just last year--Harvard and Penn were both TIED at 12-2. Harvard was the #1 seed on a technicality; in essence they lost to a worse team, Columbia, while Penn lost to a better team, Yale.
BTW the Yale game was lost for several reasons---questionable foul shooting, leadership, but most of all some of the most one-sided refereeing ever seen in an Ivy game.
So, no more BS about Harvard the #1 seed playing a road game at the Palestra.
[mobrien: Harvard had to play Penn at Penn last year despite being the top seed]
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