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Username Post: Penn II        (Topic#22760)
mobrien 
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Loc: New York
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03-01-19 07:12 PM - Post#278618    

Anyone at the game? Any idea whether Towns or Bassey will play?

 
mobrien 
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Loc: New York
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03-01-19 07:30 PM - Post#278622    
    In response to mobrien

No Towns or Bassey tonight, but the team hopes they'll both — — be ready for tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/dtannenwald/status/11 016212540...

 
mobrien 
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Loc: New York
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03-01-19 08:48 PM - Post#278669    
    In response to mobrien

Ugh. Turnovers. Stagnant offense with Lewis on the court. Bryce forcing threes out of frustration. Maybe our worst offensive half of the year.

 
Local Observer 
Junior
Posts: 231
Local Observer
Reg: 03-30-14
03-01-19 10:02 PM - Post#278747    
    In response to mobrien

Ummm - the SECOND half was better!

 
mobrien 
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Loc: New York
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03-01-19 10:05 PM - Post#278749    
    In response to mobrien

Well, a win's a win. We played pretty badly, though. Ton of turnovers, more missed free throws when we could have easily put the game out of reach, and it took Aiken a looooong time to get going.

The difference was Lewis came alive in the second half. He finally shut Brodeur down, had a couple of nice, quick and decisive post moves for layups, blocked a big shot in the last couple of minutes. As bad as his first half was, his second half was good.

Side note: Baker didn't play a minute tonight. Appears he is back firmly in the dog house.

 
Local Observer 
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Local Observer
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03-01-19 10:09 PM - Post#278754    
    In response to mobrien

Penn was 7 for 26 with 3-pointers. That was the difference.

 
digamma 
Masters Student
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Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
03-01-19 10:37 PM - Post#278770    
    In response to Local Observer

Gutty win when we clearly weren't at our best. Love the ability of this team to pick each other up when others are down. D-Lo and Rio kept us in it in the first half when others were really off. Bryce and Lewis were there down the stretch.

 
digamma 
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Loc: Minneapolis
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03-01-19 10:37 PM - Post#278771    
    In response to digamma

Separately, mrjames, were you at the game behind the bench?

 
mrjames 
Professor
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Reg: 11-21-04
03-01-19 11:04 PM - Post#278775    
    In response to digamma

I’m at the C’s game...........

 
Naismith 
Sophomore
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Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
03-01-19 11:28 PM - Post#278780    
    In response to Local Observer

Bench and depth were the difference. Penn had 4 starters in there for 36 minutes and up. They played very tired last 8 minutes. Harvard 25-4 in bench scoring. Harvard's bench so deep that Amaker could toss 3-4 new guys out there vs. Princeton who didn't play tonight. Interesting win when Aiken again makes team's last field goal--a 3 pointer-- That was with 6:10 left--not quite a buzzer beater.

 
mobrien 
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03-02-19 12:01 AM - Post#278784    
    In response to Local Observer

Good point. The difference was 1) In the second half, Lewis mostly shut down Brodeur inside and forced them to shoot it from outside, and 2) their shooters missed everything. Woods and Goodman were a combined 3 of 13 from three for them; Rio and Danilo were 6 of 8 for us.

That said, those last five minutes were beyond ugly. We had multiple chances to put the game away with one good offensive possession, and couldn't do it. Then we had multiple chances to put it away with free throws, and couldn't. Against a better opponent, we would have given the game away that way.

I guess a 21% TO rate is an acceptably bad performance for us given that we seem to be able to consistently survive up to around a 25% rate. Rio and Kirkwood both get so excited trying to push in semi-transition that they dribble into trouble. Kirkwood has been a little better at this than he has been, but he can still have problems with a loose handle.

Bryce made a nice adjustment driving more in the second half. Was able to get to the line a few times, make a layup, and then he had that dagger three that was the only bucket either team made for ... awhile.

Still, a win against a desperate Penn team when we didn't have Bassey is pretty good. Hopefully we get him back tomorrow. And who knows, maybe Towns too.

 
PennFan10 
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03-02-19 01:46 PM - Post#278849    
    In response to mobrien

If Lewis “shut down Brodeur” in the second half (AJ scored 13 of his game leading 24) then what do you call Dev Goodman’s defense on Aiken (Who scored 9 of his 12 in the second half—less than half his average). I think the bench from Harvard outplaying the bench from Penn was the difference in this game. (45% from 3 vs 27%)

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-02-19 02:31 PM - Post#278862    
    In response to PennFan10

Very good defense played yesterday. Bryce never really got it going. Actually, Bryce Washington was even less impactful.
Brodeur was awesome until final 5-10 minutes. Happened at Palestra as well but I attributed that to back to back games. Penn needs another big who can score so Donahue can spell Brodeur for the closing minutes.

 
mobrien 
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Loc: New York
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03-02-19 03:31 PM - Post#278873    
    In response to PennFan10

Lewis didn't come in until almost midway through the second half, after Brodeur had scored most of his points, I think.

After getting beaten pretty badly in the first half, Lewis did a much, much better job in those last 7-8 minutes. Maybe Brodeur had just run out of steam by then.

 
Mike Porter 
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Mike Porter
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Reg: 11-21-04
Penn II
03-03-19 01:39 AM - Post#279077    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

For the record, Bryce Washington injured his knee in the first half, and that’s why he wasn’t more impactful.

Before that he was playing well - hit a 3 with a defender in face to stop a dry spell, played great on ball D, had a nice steal that would have been a breakaway if not for a smart Harvard foul, and grabbed a big rebound that he actually got injured on - call was tie up but I thought he got fouled watching live. He went to the bench for a long time with ice, came back with a wrap but wasn’t the same and they shut him down.

He was in street clothes for Dartmouth and unknown what his status will be next weekend unfortunately. Before the injury he looked ready for a good bounce back.

 
PennFan10 
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03-03-19 02:25 AM - Post#279082    
    In response to mobrien

  • mobrien Said:
Lewis didn't come in until almost midway through the second half, after Brodeur had scored most of his points, I think.

After getting beaten pretty badly in the first half, Lewis did a much, much better job in those last 7-8 minutes. Maybe Brodeur had just run out of steam by then.



Just went back and looked at this to be clear. Lewis came into the game with 13:34 left in the 2nd half and the score tied at 35. He played the rest of the game except for a 2:18 stretch from the 6:18 min mark until the 4 min mark. The stat line for AJ and Lewis during that time read like this:

Lewis:
2-2 4pts
1 reb
1 block
1 steal

AJ:
2-3 4 pts
2 assists
1 block
1 foul
1 turnover

AJ had a hand in 9 of the 18 points Penn scored in the last 13 min. Chris Lewis was responsible for 4 pts. Both had a rebound and a block.

 
digamma 
Masters Student
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Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
03-03-19 07:31 AM - Post#279084    
    In response to PennFan10

And what did AJ do in the first 27 minutes of the game?

 
palestra38 
Professor
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Reg: 11-21-04
03-03-19 09:01 AM - Post#279092    
    In response to digamma

AJ was gassed in the final minutes. Lewis didn't stop AJ from getting his shots, they simply were short. But give Harvard credit--they beat Penn twice in games where they were outplayed for the large majority of the game. The big difference is 3 point shooting---and hitting tough contested ones. I like Penn's chances if they get the 4th spot, but Harvard simply has found ways to win the close ones this year. And that is the sign of a good team.

 
PennFan10 
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03-03-19 11:06 AM - Post#279123    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
AJ was gassed in the final minutes. Lewis didn't stop AJ from getting his shots, they simply were short. But give Harvard credit--they beat Penn twice in games where they were outplayed for the large majority of the game. The big difference is 3 point shooting---and hitting tough contested ones. I like Penn's chances if they get the 4th spot, but Harvard simply has found ways to win the close ones this year. And that is the sign of a good team.



There was no “they” in AJ’s shot attempts. He was 2-3 in the last 10 minutes of the game with 2 assist accounting for 9 pts of the 18 Penn scored. He played fine and certainly wasn’t “shut out”. neither team scored much down the stretch but Harvard rebounded and made their free throws. Penn missed open shots and gave up 2 offensive rebounds in the final minute that sealed the deal.

 
PennFan10 
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03-03-19 11:10 AM - Post#279125    
    In response to digamma

  • digamma Said:
And what did AJ do in the first 27 minutes of the game?



The post I was replying to was the one in which mobrien stated that Lewis completely shut down Brodeur at the end of the game. That simply didn’t happen. If anything the two bigs were even in their production. That was a tail off of AJ’s production, which is a fair observation, as the rest of the game he was the dominant force on the floor. The balance of Harvard’s team, along with Penn’s missed shots and other miscues is what sealed the deal over the last 7 minutes.



 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-03-19 12:23 PM - Post#279134    
    In response to PennFan10

I think it’s about perspective.

Lewis has become an option for the Crimson. With Bryce’s return, Lewis is playing fewer minutes and the post is no longer the focal point of Harvard’s offense. The return of Bassey and maybe even Towns will further exacerbate that trend.

Brodeur appears to be increasing as the focus of Penn’s offense. He’s been effective and efficient, but it’s a double edged sword. With Wang and Rothschild not scoring, and with Penn’s 3 point shooting unimpressive (sans Betley) it’s Brodeur or bust at times. If he makes 2 buckets over the last 10 minutes of a game that doesn’t appear to bode well for the Quakers.

To me, it felt like Harvard succeeded and, after going up 54-46, with 6.5 minutes left, neutralized Brodeur by making him give up the ball. Thus, for the second time this season, Brodeur’s inability to finish strong was a difference maker. This includes Harvard’s dominance on the boards at the end of both games.

 
digamma 
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Loc: Minneapolis
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03-03-19 04:32 PM - Post#279169    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:
  • digamma Said:
And what did AJ do in the first 27 minutes of the game?



The post I was replying to was the one in which mobrien stated that Lewis completely shut down Brodeur at the end of the game. That simply didn’t happen. If anything the two bigs were even in their production. That was a tail off of AJ’s production, which is a fair observation, as the rest of the game he was the dominant force on the floor. The balance of Harvard’s team, along with Penn’s missed shots and other miscues is what sealed the deal over the last 7 minutes.





I think you misread his post. He was comparing Lewis's play in the last ten minutes of the game to the first half. If you didn't notice a difference in how Lewis played Brodeur in the last ten minutes, then we watched different games. More denial of the ball in the post, more touches outside the arc, etc. They may have played even over the last ten minutes. That's fine. If that happens, we've neutralized your best player and win the other match-ups most of the time.


 
digamma 
Masters Student
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Loc: Minneapolis
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03-03-19 04:35 PM - Post#279170    
    In response to digamma

To my point Brodeur scored 20 points in the first 28 minutes of the game and 4 points in the last 12 minutes.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-03-19 04:45 PM - Post#279173    
    In response to digamma

Similar situation in first meeting

 
PennFan10 
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Reg: 02-15-15
03-03-19 08:35 PM - Post#279193    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

The last thing I’ll say is the original quote was “Lewis mostly shut down Brodeur in the second half”

That is simply wrong. If you want to say Brodeur didn’t score in the last 5 minutes or Lewis played him differently, or whatever you want thats ok, but my first response was to the initial post. AJ was the dominant player on the floor for the entirety of the game and Penn’s supporting cast didn’t make plays while Harvard’s did.

AJ was directly responsible for 9 of Penn’s final 18 pts (13 in the second half—he was also responsible for half of the team’s points over the whole game so he was consistent) and would have had 2-3 more assists but for Silpe and Dev missed layups and a missed 3 by Silpe.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-03-19 10:50 PM - Post#279204    
    In response to PennFan10

Finally done driving home from Cambridge and checked the numbers:

Game #1: Brodeur scoreless over final 11+ minutes
Game #2: Brodeur 4pts over final 12+ minutes

Brodeur was effective for roughly 30 minutes each game, but Penn seems to ride its horse into the ground. A rested Lewis must deserve some credit.

 
PennFan10 
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03-04-19 01:21 AM - Post#279229    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Again, its a nice theory but that was not the original point. mobrien said “Chris Lewis mostly shut out Brodeur in the 2nd half”. That statement is not true and has been proven to be not true. You guys then moved the goalposts on every subsequent post.

The last 6 minutes of the game Penn outscored Harvard 7-5. I am not sure anyone can claim dominance over that span.

 
mobrien 
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Loc: New York
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03-04-19 01:27 AM - Post#279231    
    In response to PennFan10

  • digamma Said:
To my point Brodeur scored 20 points in the first 28 minutes of the game and 4 points in the last 12 minutes.



Pretty unbelievable that you think what I said wasn't true and "has been proven not to be true". I can't tell if you're trolling or are just this deluded.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-04-19 01:39 AM - Post#279232    
    In response to mobrien

The concept was defensive dominance. Penn was trailing and mustered up a meager 6 points in the last 6+ minutes. Harvard did worse, but partly due to holding the ball deep into possessions and shooting uncharacteristically poorly on FT's.

The initial point was prefaced by the fact that Lewis did not start the second half, but that is being conveniently overlooked.

There must be a great deal of frustration as a squad touted as the pre season favorite by its fans sits 2 games under .500, hoping for a shot at 4th place. Of course they're trolling. Otherwise they wouldn't be over here on the Harvard board after the Crimson completed the sweep of the Quakers (and, for that matter, Princeton and Yale).



 
PennFan10 
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03-04-19 10:42 AM - Post#279242    
    In response to mobrien

I am not trolling. You won the game and deserved to win. Your wins against Yale were impressive. Since HVG decided to take this to a different place I will now say this: You are the likely #1 seed, which will make it all the more sweet when we back into the tourney and send you to the NIT at Yale. I will enjoy watching all of you bitch about the existence of the tourney for the next several years, citing this year’s “debacle”.

As far as mobrien, THIS was your quote:
  • mobrien Said:
Good point. The difference was 1) In the second half, Lewis mostly shut down Brodeur inside and forced them to shoot it from outside, and 2) their shooters missed everything. Woods and Goodman were a combined 3 of 13 from three for them; Rio and Danilo were 6 of 8 for us.

That said, those last five minutes were beyond ugly. We had multiple chances to put the game away with one good offensive possession, and couldn't do it. Then we had multiple chances to put it away with free throws, and couldn't. Against a better opponent, we would have given the game away that way.

I guess a 21% TO rate is an acceptably bad performance for us given that we seem to be able to consistently survive up to around a 25% rate. Rio and Kirkwood both get so excited trying to push in semi-transition that they dribble into trouble. Kirkwood has been a little better at this than he has been, but he can still have problems with a loose handle.

Bryce made a nice adjustment driving more in the second half. Was able to get to the line a few times, make a layup, and then he had that dagger three that was the only bucket either team made for ... awhile.

Still, a win against a desperate Penn team when we didn't have Bassey is pretty good. Hopefully we get him back tomorrow. And who knows, maybe Towns too.



To which I replied:

  • PennFan10 Said:
If Lewis “shut down Brodeur” in the second half (AJ scored 13 of his game leading 24) then what do you call Dev Goodman’s defense on Aiken (Who scored 9 of his 12 in the second half—less than half his average). I think the bench from Harvard outplaying the bench from Penn was the difference in this game. (45% from 3 vs 27%)



That set off a flurry of subsequent reactions and reinterpretations by you guys which made completely different, and mostly true, points. You all tried to get me to react to your new points and I have done nothing but point to my original post and its reason, which is still the case.

mobrien, yes, AJ scored 4 in the last 12 minutes and 20 prior to that. So what? I could say Max played 8 minutes and guarded Lewis the whole time and Lewis never scored. Does that mean he “shut him down”? Your original post was an exaggeration and caused a reaction from me to clarify. The rest is just noise. You won and deserved to win. Congratulations.

You, and your 3 posters, can have your board back. I won’t be coming here again.

 
mobrien 
Senior
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03-04-19 11:05 AM - Post#279246    
    In response to PennFan10

It's cute that Penn fans have delusions of grandeur because of one fluky season where they actually had a winning Ivy league record, got unearned home court advantage, and barely took us down when both of our best players were hurt. I'd say see you guys in the ILT, except ... well, there's a really good chance we won't.

It's too bad because Penn is an easier matchup than Brown.

 
palestra38 
Professor
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03-04-19 11:15 AM - Post#279249    
    In response to mobrien

So it's fluky for Harvard to have injuries (enough with the claim of 1st place because of the subjective tie breaker) but not Penn? Show me the OOC wins Harvard has that matches even closely to Penn. Thought so.

But count me in hoping that Penn can get in and get another crack at Harvard. You won't hit the lucky shots a 3rd time after being outplayed.

 
mobrien 
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03-04-19 11:38 AM - Post#279254    
    In response to palestra38

Harvard has lost two Ivy Player of the Year-caliber players in Towns and Aiken the last two years. Yale lost one in Mason last year. Absent those injuries, you guys probably would have been a nice third place team then. Instead, pretty much everything went your way, including getting unearned home court advantage.

Let me put it this way: if AJ had missed most of last year, Betley got hurt in the Ivy League final being hosted in Cambridge, and we'd only beaten you by 3 points, I wouldn't think my program was "back". I would think we'd gotten lucky. Which is what we're seeing this year. A team with one very good player coming back down to Earth because the rest of the roster just isn't that good.

Also, I think the statute of limitations on bragging about beating a wildly inconsistent Villanova team is coming up. Especially when Penn hasn't beaten *any* of the top three teams in the Ivies. Seriously, when was your last good win? December?

 
palestra38 
Professor
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03-04-19 11:48 AM - Post#279256    
    In response to mobrien

Towns played the entire season last year for Harvard and got hurt in the final. Aiken has played the entire Ivy season this year.

The loss of Betley for an entire season equals anything Harvard has lost. Add in Penn's most highly recruited guard lost for 2 seasons with ACL and there is nothing Harvard can claim in terms of victimhood.

What is not in doubt is that Harvard took a miracle to beat Penn at the Palestra after being outplayed the entire game and was outplayed for most of the game at Harvard. Have things gone Penn's way in the Ivies? No--their freshmen hit the wall. But don't exhibit too much hubris--it's been quite a while since Harvard played an NCAA game and they haven't had to overcome Jerome Allen.

But I'll be happy to mix it up with you if Penn takes care of business this weekend (which is by no means certain).

 
mrjames 
Professor
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03-04-19 11:53 AM - Post#279257    
    In response to palestra38

Harvard actually has the best non-conf win in the league (@St. Mary's). It's the only Tier I-A win right now.

 
palestra38 
Professor
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03-04-19 12:00 PM - Post#279258    
    In response to mrjames

Aren't these things judged by the rankings and conditions at the time the games were held??

If Villanova falls off the face of the earth, it still was the highest ranked win for an Ivy team when played.

 
mobrien 
Senior
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03-04-19 12:02 PM - Post#279260    
    In response to mrjames

And that St. Mary's win was without Aiken, Towns, or Lewis.



 
mrjames 
Professor
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03-04-19 12:05 PM - Post#279262    
    In response to palestra38

They aren't. They float as the season goes on as we get more data on each team.

But even at the time Villanova wasn't a Tier I-A win.

To be fair, it's really hard to have a better home win than beating St. Mary's on the road. Would need to be a Top 13 or 14ish team.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-04-19 03:10 PM - Post#279291    
    In response to mrjames

I think Harvard's injuries this season are being overlooked. Justin Bassey hasn't been available (except for minor minutes in 2 games) for the last 3 weekends. There are two other solid starters with significantly decreased minutes and production. Make of it what you will, but do you really think that Haskett and Forbes have performed to a level where Coach Amaker decided he needed to start playing starters 20 minutes or so?

Coach Amaker deserves to be considered for Coach of the Year considering the time missed by multiple starters and rotation players, not to mention the absences of Aiken and more so Towns.

It is an incorrect statement to say that Aiken played the entire Ivy season this year. When he did return in mid-January, he understandably took some time to acclimate as this was his competitive ball in about a year.

As a Harvard fan, I expect the Crimson and its fans are focused on winning the regular season and then qualifying for the NCAA tournament. Who we play and when we play them is irrelevant as you have to win 2 games in New Haven. Other may obsess if they wish to.

 
Quakers03 
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03-04-19 03:27 PM - Post#279297    
    In response to mobrien

  • mobrien Said:
It's cute that Penn fans have delusions of grandeur because of one fluky season where they actually had a winning Ivy league record, got unearned home court advantage, and barely took us down when both of our best players were hurt. I'd say see you guys in the ILT, except ... well, there's a really good chance we won't.

It's too bad because Penn is an easier matchup than Brown.


This was a grade A troll job. And it will be remembered.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-04-19 03:38 PM - Post#279300    
    In response to mobrien

  • mobrien Said:
It's cute that Penn fans have delusions of grandeur because of one fluky season where they actually had a winning Ivy league record, got unearned home court advantage, and barely took us down when both of our best players were hurt. I'd say see you guys in the ILT, except ... well, there's a really good chance we won't.

It's too bad because Penn is an easier matchup than Brown.




Give me a break! He was responding to a Penn troll in a Harvard link invaded by Penn posters following Saturday's loss by Penn at Harvard. You're plain wrong.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-04-19 03:41 PM - Post#279302    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
So it's fluky for Harvard to have injuries (enough with the claim of 1st place because of the subjective tie breaker) but not Penn? Show me the OOC wins Harvard has that matches even closely to Penn. Thought so.

But count me in hoping that Penn can get in and get another crack at Harvard. You won't hit the lucky shots a 3rd time after being outplayed.



This was the Penn post I was trying to quote.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-04-19 03:44 PM - Post#279303    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

The facts are that:
- Harvard has a better OOC win
- Harvard has more injuries this year and last year
- Penn just lost twice to Harvard Despite 4 of Harvard's top 5 players missing or being limited.

Although we're not healthy and that is a big concern, as a fan I'm thrilled to be sitting in first place instead of merely hoping to finish at .500


 
section110 
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03-04-19 03:50 PM - Post#279307    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Stop whining, Get back to the NCAAs & then brag. You've convinced the league to hold next years' tournament at the Lavatory; so will see if you can win there.

 
palestra38 
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03-04-19 04:03 PM - Post#279312    
    In response to section110

And if you don't want Penn fans to post on the Harvard Board (I thought we resolved years ago that anyone can post on any board), maybe you should find a few more Harvard fans. It's pretty amazing that the Ivy playoff has not sold out---but the lack of interest from H, Y and Pr is astonishing considering that they're in.

And again, claiming Harvard has had more injuries this year than Penn is just ridiculous. But get your excuses in line in advance.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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Penn II
03-04-19 04:13 PM - Post#279320    
    In response to palestra38

Penn fans have been posting here about Harvard's injuries - something you know know nothing about - all year.

I recall being told here by one of your brethren that neither Aiken or Towns would play this year. Why come over to another team's board and give your definitive opinion about something you know nothing about? Which, by the way, is exactly what you just did.

Oh, and Harvard vs Princeton at New Haven and Harvard vs Yale at the Palestra both sold out despite being played while the host school was on break. Hope you have your tix, just in case.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 03-04-19 04:14 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
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Re: Penn II
03-04-19 04:28 PM - Post#279321    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Don't worry--I have mine. If Penn plays Harvard, it will be like a Penn home game.

And please don't give us this revisionist history of the Harvard injury debate. You told us at least 15 times that Towns was OK and would play this year. We called it correctly--he had a serious knee injury and could not play at all. Penn played the entire Ivy season without its best player, its best recruit and Wang was hurt and not the same player after the Toledo game. Even with that, the two teams are neck and neck head to head.

 
mobrien 
Senior
Posts: 390

Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
03-04-19 04:32 PM - Post#279325    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
Towns played the entire season last year for Harvard and got hurt in the final. Aiken has played the entire Ivy season this year.

The loss of Betley for an entire season equals anything Harvard has lost. Add in Penn's most highly recruited guard lost for 2 seasons with ACL and there is nothing Harvard can claim in terms of victimhood.



This is the greatest example of the endowment effect I've ever seen. Saying that losing Betley and Williams is the same as losing Towns and Aiken is just ... it's insane.

Speaking of injuries, we just managed to beat you guys without Bassey. He's probably been our second most important player — our top rebounder and defender — with Towns out this year. But yeah, Penn has *totally* had to deal with more adversity the last two years.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-19 04:35 PM - Post#279328    
    In response to mobrien

Not last year--just this year. And Penn had far greater graduation losses.

But what are you bitching about---Harvard has had, by far, the best recruiting classes in the Ivies for the last 4 years. Still waiting for a title, though.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-04-19 04:46 PM - Post#279333    
    In response to mobrien

You guys aren't reading what I write. You are absolutely clueless when it comes to the health of Harvard's players. Based on what you guys post, Penn is far far healthier than Harvard is, and that has been the case every single day of this season and most of last season.

The dumplicity is amazing though, as the absence of Betley and a guy who has never really played is highlighted. I remember hearing from a Penn fan in 2015-16 that Penn's victory at the Palestra that season was not at all related to the complete absence of Zena and the illness of Evan Cummings. Man, was that Penn poster adamant about that. He wouldn't concede anything.

Of course, it matter bigly. In the rematch, with Zena and Evan starting, Harvard ran out to a 40-15 lead and literally manhandled Penn.

Sure Penn would be better with Betley and Williams, but with a full season of Aiken and Towns Harvard would not only likely have clinched the league, but it would be a possible at large selection. Penn had a great OOC, but it would be no match if everyone were healthy.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-19 04:49 PM - Post#279334    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Be honest with me---when you said Towns would be back and you were sure he did not suffer a serious injury, you were shooting right out of your a.ss, correct?

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-04-19 05:08 PM - Post#279342    
    In response to palestra38

Nope, just following what I'd been told - which was that he was recovering and expected to play this year. Same with Bryce. As for Seth, I've been told he's been participating in full in practices. As we all heard and read, we could still see him.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-19 06:43 PM - Post#279376    
    In response to palestra38

I’ll leave opinions to the side here.

When it comes to board rules, it’s fine to post on any boards, but if you’re a guest on a different team’s boards, try to avoid antagonizing any of their posters. Supporters should be able to post on their own boards without any taunting or aggressive behavior on the part of the visitors - aside from blatantly inappropriate content, it’s about the only thing I’ll step in on as a passive moderator.

As for the recruiting classes point, my model did not have the Harvard 2015 or 2017 classes as best in the Ivy. I think prior to 2016, Harvard hadn’t had a top class since 2012 - that was a huge reason why the 2016 class got pressed into service immediately.

The 2016 class was indeed the best in my database by a wide margin. And it’s on pace to live up to those projections even with all the injuries, which is insane.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Re: Penn II
03-04-19 07:31 PM - Post#279379    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
Don't worry--I have mine. If Penn plays Harvard, it will be like a Penn home game.

And please don't give us this revisionist history of the Harvard injury debate. You told us at least 15 times that Towns was OK and would play this year. We called it correctly--he had a serious knee injury and could not play at all. Penn played the entire Ivy season without its best player, its best recruit and Wang was hurt and not the same player after the Toledo game. Even with that, the two teams are neck and neck head to head.



Yes, neither of the two games were blowouts, but Harvard won them both, the latter without Bassey as well. Also, the Crimson are in first place and Penn is sub-500 and tied for 5th place. By the way, you guys said neither Aiken nor Towns would play this year. Was that ever wrong. Regardless, you've never seen any Harvard fan over on the Penn board opining on Penn's injuries. Why would anyone who doesn't know do that? Why would I come over to the Penn board and put a timetable on Betley, Williams, Wang, Max, etc? How would you guys react if I suggested that your guys take the year off and play a graduate season elsewhere? Not cool, to put it mildly.



 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Penn II
03-04-19 08:57 PM - Post#279385    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Look, to put it mildly, you don't know shi.t. Period. You post all the time about information you supposedly know, and you're virtually always wrong. You post on other boards and complain about others posting on the Harvard board, as if you have a property interest. It's fine that you're a know-nothing blowhard, but don't make yourself some kind of victim.

BTW, no one ever said Aiken would be out all year--just Towns. And we were right. And you were wrong. Man, you're an arrogant SOB

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
BS
03-04-19 09:20 PM - Post#279388    
    In response to palestra38

I know a lot more about Harvard basketball than you guys apparently did:

  • PennFan10 Said:
I think the stakes are high right now. If those guys aren't back in the lineup by Dartmouth in 10 days I can't see the reason they would come back at all this season.



Bryce returned. Maybe Seth will return as well. He's practicing with the team - full out.

Wrong again.

By the way, I believe I'm often right, to wit:

- I tried to tell you guys that Penn lost the most talent and was not this season's Ivy favorite. Penn has fallen off more than any other Ivy team from 2018 to 2019. Don't use Betley as an excuse as Harvard and Princeton have lost as much if not more.
- I tried to tell you that Yale was good and deep. Yale has the best KP by far and is tied for first. You guys dismissed them to third place - actively arguing that Penn was much better than Yale.
- I explained that both Aiken and Towns were trying to return and were expected back. You guys insisted that they wouldn't be playing. I was right about Aiken, status remains a possibility on Towns. Timing of course depended on their medical condition and physical reaction to activity. I never professed to know that, and you guys surely knew far far less.
- The League agreed with me on HCA. No Palestra for 7 years, hopefully 14.

I could go on, but it's not worth the effort.

Please return to your own board and lick your wounds without bothering others.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: BS
03-04-19 09:29 PM - Post#279389    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Again, no one ever mentioned Aiken. And if you want me to repeat your BS about Towns coming back imminently, I can.

But again, this is not YOUR BOARD. It's a community, which you seem to think has you above others. That is unfortunate, but it says far more about you than us.

 
mobrien 
Senior
Posts: 390

Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
03-04-19 09:42 PM - Post#279393    
    In response to palestra38

I distinctly remember Penn fans saying that neither Towns nor Aiken would come back this year. I'm too lazy to dig up the post, but it happened. Anyways, good luck qualifying for the ILT! We're rooting for you.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-04-19 10:04 PM - Post#279398    
    In response to palestra38

I believe you have spoken quite clearly in a way that reflects poorly about yourself. And, it’s a shame.

Please go back and obsess over your own team. I am confident that I am far more welcome to keep posting here than you are. I have never engaged in ad hominem attacks here. Disappointed but not surprised that’s where this season has brought you.

Oh, and I guess the plural word ‘guys’ only referred to Towns? Of course there are more examples. For what it’s worth there was a time when Towns was expected back before Aiken. It was very disappointing to many when it changed. I suspect you do not share in that disappointment.



 
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