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Username Post: Next year        (Topic#22913)
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
03-17-19 03:12 PM - Post#281796    

After watching the Harvard Yale final this afternoon I came away with more appreciation for what our guys accomplished this season. We played four tough games against the two best teams in the league, splitting with Yale and going to a total of 4 OTs with Harvard. And this was without what we thought was going to be a lineup with Smith at PG and Meisner at PF as our two best players. If Tape continues his improvement next year he mat well be the best true front court player in the league. Smith will be one of the best ball handlers and quickest PGs in the league. Stefanini is a real gamer. Nweke can be a monster with his size and skill set, and Brumant is also a solid front court player. Ellis and Bibbs both came on at the end of the year. If we get Turner as a ready for serious minutes PG we will have a very good back court. Killingsworth is somewhat of an enigma to me, and I don’t know what to expect from Forest, but I have done a complete 180 on Engles and think he is an excellent in-game coach. So count me as very optimistic for next year.


 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2201

Reg: 10-09-09
03-17-19 04:19 PM - Post#281803    
    In response to Chet Forte

Although we will be much better, the problem is that everyone else except Cornell will be better too next year, especially Harvard, which returns everyone whom we saw on the court today. Basically, there are going to be 7 teams trying to shoehorn themselves in 4 spots. While I reject the default assumption that the tournament will merely include the same four teams, the league is going to be so tight and competitive that one year away, it is impossible to predict who might make the tournament.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3988

Reg: 11-23-04
03-17-19 07:35 PM - Post#281831    
    In response to cc66

I am afraid that H & Y had guys who didn't play today, who would have started for B,C,C and D. The bottom 4 or 5 will be better next year, but I don't see how the gap will be closed.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
03-17-19 08:28 PM - Post#281840    
    In response to Old Bear

While that is probably true, the gap between to top teams and the bottom teams this year was as close as it has ever been. And your point gets to a key difference— Yale and Harvard have a lot more talented depth than the bottom four. Columbia in particular needs to keep folks on the roster (particularly up front) to try to bridge that gap.

 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2163

Reg: 02-14-06
03-17-19 09:20 PM - Post#281852    
    In response to SomeGuy

Chet, with all due respect, I cannot reasonably agree with your stated conclusion that "...Engles is an"...excellent game coach" simply because Columbia managed to win a few games at the end of this season. The team did play well during the final three weekends of the season, but I have trouble overlooking Engles' record as Columbia's head coach the past three years: 2016-17: 5-9 Ivy, 11-16 overall; 2017-18: 5-9 Ivy, 8-19 overall; 2018-19; 5-9 Ivy, 10-18. That's a 15-27 Ivy record and 29-55 overall. It's difficult for me to envision any scenario where an "excellent game coach" could compile such a bad record.

 
Chip Bayers 
Professor
Posts: 6997
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Next year
03-17-19 11:15 PM - Post#281859    
    In response to Chet Forte

  • Quote:
Tape continues his improvement next year he mat well be the best true front court player in the league?



Brodeur, Aririguzoh, Knight, Lewis, and Bruner are all coming back next year, so that’s quite the optimistic prediction.







Edited by Chip Bayers on 03-17-19 11:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3578

Reg: 02-15-15
03-18-19 12:27 AM - Post#281867    
    In response to Chip Bayers

as is Atkinson

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
03-18-19 06:30 AM - Post#281873    
    In response to PennFan10

Tape finally hit his stride over the last three weekends. What has always impressed me about his untapped potential is here is a guy who is 6’10” and highly athletic. As far as Engles, I will admit that I was a harsh critic especially with the roster losses, but despite being undermanned we were always in games and kept grinding throughout the year. And if H and Y were the two best teams look at the way we played both of them. So I have to give Engles credit here. He beat Penn and Yale on the road, gave Harvard fits in two games, and helped turn Stef into an all Ivy player while at PG instead of his natural position of SG.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
03-18-19 08:52 AM - Post#281884    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

I always thought the CU boards were always far too tough on Engles given what he was given when he came here. Smith left for a very slight upgrade in level and left behind a team that would have to be totally rebuilt. And he left late.

Engles inherited a team that lost its 3 top scorers (Lo, Mullins and Rosenberg) worth 44 ppg, 10 rebounds and 8 assists and his next 2 top players (Petrasek and Coby) were about to be seniors. So without a recruiting year, the cupboard was going to be barren a year later. In those circumstances it is reasonable to expect that this would be the first year to show improvement. To blame Engles for the W/L to date is to let off the hook the recruiting of the guy who left to take a lateral job.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
03-18-19 09:22 AM - Post#281887    
    In response to palestra38

“Necessity is the mother of invention”. And as a result of losing Smith and Meisner, we were still able to cobble together a competitive group of guys. Losing to a good Rutgers team in OT on the road, while frustrating since we could not close it out, was a hint that we might be able to put something together by the end of the year. And now we have some guys with a lot of game experience that they otherwise would not have gotten had Meisner and Smith been around.


 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2201

Reg: 10-09-09
Re: Next year
03-18-19 12:11 PM - Post#281920    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Maybe Chet got a bit carried away about Tape, but since he did average 16.3 ppg for his last six games, he certainly belongs among the top 3 along with Brodeur and Arrizough (sp.?)

Although no one knows whether Smith will return from injury and perform at the same level, he was also second team IL one year ago. With Tape, Stefanini, and Smith, Columbia will fill three of the five starting positions with players who at one time have been designated All-Ivy. Among either the top four or the second three, very few teams will be able to match that.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Next year
03-18-19 01:08 PM - Post#281927    
    In response to cc66

Well, Penn has Brodeur, Betley and Goodman, and Harvard has Aiken, Towns and Lewis

 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2201

Reg: 10-09-09
Next year
03-18-19 01:11 PM - Post#281928    
    In response to palestra38

So you solved it right there We should be among the top 3!

Edited by cc66 on 03-18-19 01:12 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Next year
03-18-19 01:33 PM - Post#281932    
    In response to cc66

CU should have a good shot going in to make next year's tournament.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
03-18-19 09:10 PM - Post#281972    
    In response to palestra38

We need everybody to stay healthy.


 
JadwinGeorge 
Senior
Posts: 357

Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
Re: Next year
03-19-19 07:57 AM - Post#282007    
    In response to palestra38

Princeton has Richmond A and an improving Llewellyn plus a lot of question marks. Not coincidental that the comeback vs. Yale was derailed by Stephens fouling out. When he left Yale scored on every possession. Now he's gone for good, leaving a gaping hole for Henderson to fill. That said nine players with experience return. Harvard is a lock for No.1, Penn probably a lock for 2. The other 5 teams (I don't see Cornell improving) should battle to the last weekend for tourney seeding.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Next year
03-19-19 08:00 AM - Post#282009    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

Generally agree with your analysis---of course, as has been the case since Princeton's 14-0 year, the key injuries are what makes the ultimate difference.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
03-19-19 08:56 AM - Post#282016    
    In response to palestra38

I do not see anybody as a lock for anything next year. As far as personnel Cornell, Yale and Princeton have the biggest holes to fill. Biggest question marks are three all league caliber guys coming back from injuries: Towns, Betley and Smith. As far as players poised to show continued improvement with the potential to be dominant players my candidate is Tape.


 
JadwinGeorge 
Senior
Posts: 357

Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
03-19-19 10:04 AM - Post#282022    
    In response to Chet Forte

I am a big Tape fan. As I posted earlier he was the only player to handle Richmond, in C vs P II, as his progress during the season was phenomenal. It will be interesting to see if either of those players have reached the limit of their ability, ala Chris Lewis. Aiken is my early pick for POY and the returning talent even w/o Towns makes them as close to a lock as you can have. The Lions with a healthy Smith are in the conversation w/o doubt.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
03-19-19 11:56 AM - Post#282052    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

Richmond had some nice things to say about Tape after the last game. Lewis has either peaked or regressed. Aiken was actually my choice for POY this year. He was the difference in both of our games. Stephens should have been DPOY. As far as Mike Smith, he should not be asked to play 38-40 minutes; hopefully our incoming PG, Turner, will be ready to give us 12 minutes a game.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-19-19 12:52 PM - Post#282064    
    In response to Chet Forte

If the Tournament does nothing else, it helps permit coaches to exhibit perspective in choosing not to burn out their players and/or risk injury.

Unless you are competing for 4th place late in the season, no reason now to rush someone back. Duke's delay in reinserting Zion Williamson seems to reflect that concept as Duke lost the regular season title but won their tournament.

On the other hand, Tommy Amaker clearly utilized Justin Bassey in a way that likely won the Ivy regular season title. Possible that he was focused on winning the regular season at the risk of losing Justin for the tournament.

 
Chip Bayers 
Professor
Posts: 6997
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
03-19-19 02:50 PM - Post#282087    
    In response to Chet Forte

  • Chet Forte Said:
Richmond had some nice things to say about Tape after the last game. Lewis has either peaked or regressed. Aiken was actually my choice for POY this year. He was the difference in both of our games. Stephens should have been DPOY. As far as Mike Smith, he should not be asked to play 38-40 minutes; hopefully our incoming PG, Turner, will be ready to give us 12 minutes a game.



Harvard posters here believe Lewis’s decline this year was due to injury.


 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2201

Reg: 10-09-09
Re: Next year
03-19-19 02:51 PM - Post#282088    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

Cambridge is apparently transferring from Brown. This somewhat inexplicable decision means that both Brown and Cornell will be worse next year, leaving either 6 teams fighting for four tournament positions, or if you are kindly disposed to Harvard and Penn, four teams fighting for two.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Next year
03-19-19 03:11 PM - Post#282090    
    In response to cc66

Yeah... was waiting for that news to break. From what I heard he won’t play in the CBI either...

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
03-19-19 03:46 PM - Post#282098    
    In response to mrjames

In watching the Brown games this year I had a funny feeling that Cambridge seemed somewhat disengaged. I also thought that Choh was by far the better player.


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
03-19-19 03:48 PM - Post#282099    
    In response to Chet Forte

As far as match-ups, and next year, I thought that our worst match-ups were with Princeton. For some reason, our other matchups seemed much better for us. Maybe it was the Mitch Stephens factor—to me Stephens should have been the DPOY.


 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
03-19-19 10:01 PM - Post#282150    
    In response to Chet Forte

The thing with Yale is that they have the guys to step in and start. The question is whether they can replace the depth that moves into the starting lineup. More Atkinson and Swain should be no drop off at all. It could actually be better.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
03-19-19 10:03 PM - Post#282151    
    In response to Chet Forte

Even if Turner isn’t ready, I think Engles will be comfortable sliding Stefanini over when Smith is off the floor.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
03-20-19 06:33 PM - Post#282261    
    In response to SomeGuy

PS, in our two games with Brown this year did anybody else think that Cambridge didn’t seem to be the same player that he was a year ago?


 
HGA 
Sophomore
Posts: 106

Loc: New York
Reg: 10-16-18
03-21-19 04:54 PM - Post#282433    
    In response to Chet Forte

Cambridge was having a really good season prior to league play and was putting up "all-Ivy" type numbers. There were shooting woes throughout league play, including the first Columbia game, which Brown won. In their loss to Columbia at home, he had a "Cambridge-like" 8 for 20, 25 point performance. Despite his shooting challenges, he played with passion on both ends and created openings for others on offense due to the attention he received.

 
hoopsfan 
Masters Student
Posts: 642

Reg: 12-26-04
04-17-19 10:03 AM - Post#283715    
    In response to Chet Forte

Article on Stefanini's role this year

https://the-changeup.com/blog/2019/4/11/stefan ini

 
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