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Username Post: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?        (Topic#22916)
Bruno 
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03-17-19 08:34 PM - Post#281841    

Kenpom says they are dynamite offensively - except from three, which they don’t take a ton of - and excellent defensively, with one of the top steal rates in the nation. They play two twin towers - which may be why they are also top 5 in o-boards - but they don’t seem to be on the court a lot together. They skew young - with three of their top four minute-getters being underclassmen.

Kenpom’s ranking of LSU suggests they got seeded higher than they’d earned.

The only game they’ve lost to a team with a ranking like Yale’s was Oklahoma State on a neutral court. Their best win was at Kentucky.

As far as 3-14 matchups go, this seems like a pretty good one for Yale.


LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
Stuart Suss 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-17-19 08:40 PM - Post#281843    
    In response to Bruno

The game tips off at 12:40 pm Thursday afternoon on TruTV.



 
Chip Bayers 
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Chip Bayers
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03-17-19 11:00 PM - Post#281858    
    In response to Stuart Suss

The biggest disadvantage I’d see for Yale is that Wade the interim coach was a Harvard assistant and thus will take them seriously, and knows the scouting report on JaJo teams, albeit not this parrticular collection of players.

Still, a very winnable game.


 
SRP 
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03-18-19 02:59 AM - Post#281868    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Yale has a great chance to bring the pain to LSU. A team with a lot of three-point shooters and a couple of creative scorers, that passes the ball well, against a team that is not so good from beyond the arc.

 
palestra38 
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03-18-19 10:30 AM - Post#281898    
    In response to SRP

It would be nice if there were any Yale posters on this site.

 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
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03-18-19 10:47 AM - Post#281903    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
It would be nice if there were any Yale posters on this site.


I have often wondered where they lurk. Twitter? Instagram?

Geocities?

 
Go Green 
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So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-18-19 12:48 PM - Post#281923    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
It would be nice if there were any Yale posters on this site.



There are days (such as today and yesterday) when I really can't blame them for not coming on this Board.

*sigh*


Edited by Go Green on 03-18-19 12:48 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
PennFan10 
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03-18-19 02:48 PM - Post#281934    
    In response to Go Green

Very glad to see the best team in the Ivy league again represented in the NCAA as decided on the court. I have to think Yale will give LSU some problems as they seem to match up well with the Tigers. They take a lot of 2's and drive the ball. Their starting 5 are big but Yale can match up with them with 2 bigs as well as Oni.

I picked Yale in my bracket to win a first round game.

 
Chip Bayers 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-18-19 03:05 PM - Post#281936    
    In response to SRP

  • SRP Said:
Yale has a great chance to bring the pain to LSU. A team with a lot of three-point shooters and a couple of creative scorers, that passes the ball well, against a team that is not so good from beyond the arc.



Just glancing through the kenpom stats, there are a couple of strength-on-strength points to watch when it comes to Yale’s offense vs. LSU’s D:

* Yale is just outside the top 50 nationally in A/FGM—but LSU is top 25 in limiting assisted hoops and forcing hero ball.

* Yale is 45th nationally in avoiding blocked shots—LSU is 48th in block %.

As for weakness on strength, the biggest challenge Yale will face is LSU’s ability to generate steals. Yale 272nd nationally with their 9.7 steal %, while LSU is 5th, getting steals on 12.6% of opponent possessions.

You mentioned the threes, and it’s true LSU isn’t great from the perimeter. They also are at best mediocre at preventing threes and 3-pt. shooting % by opponents. Yale has one of the best make %s in the country but on average they don’t shoot a ton of them—may be worthwhile to funnel more 3-FGAs to the likes of Oni, Copeland, and especially the marksmen Swain and Reynolds. A couple of early makes from the latter could also help pull some of the LSU shotblocking away from the paint and give Oni wider lanes to attack the rim, and Copeland more room for his mid-range pull-ups.


Edited by Chip Bayers on 03-18-19 03:07 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SRP 
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03-18-19 03:10 PM - Post#281939    
    In response to Chip Bayers

The good news for Yale is that they start two heroes even though they get a lot of assists.

 
Chip Bayers 
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So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-18-19 03:25 PM - Post#281940    
    In response to SRP

  • SRP Said:
The good news for Yale is that they start two heroes even though they get a lot of assists.



Yeah, they just have to be at their smartest when deciding whether to take it into range of the shotblockers vs. finding the open teammate. Can’t give LSU the live ball breakouts that an in-play rejection or bad pass steal will produce.


Edited by Chip Bayers on 03-18-19 03:25 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
james 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-18-19 09:05 PM - Post#281971    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Tremont waters might be best on ball defender in the country. James knows him well. He is a new haven kid and was recruited by Yale heavily.

Yale cldnt start their offense in the right zip code against duke bc of ball pressure. Didn’t matter as much against Memphis in terms of outcome (jobbed by the refs) but to’s and and the press were tough. Yale’s offense worked though when they got to the half court. The refs were criminal in deciding that outcome. And Miami played differently despite having a small quick pg.

I think taking care of the ball which has been an issue and still rebounding with their bigs will be big challenges. they will be undersized vs naz and bigby Williams. And oni hasn’t played well since Princeton #1 against a good big guard/wing. Lush has several of those types. Strangely naz Reid is a bigger version of bruner and Reynolds. Not having a size adv will be challenging esp bc Reid plays in space well.

I wonder when Jordan overcomes his 4 knee surgeries in 3 yrs mentally. I hope a real offseason injury free does it. But his hesitation in the paint could be a problem given Reid is a bigger version. It would be awesome if his dog streak I saw in high school came out on this stage but that’s also an unfair expectation. He has perhaps the highest ceiling on the team or at least James believes it but a lot to overcome mentally with that history.

Yale came into the year like last with one pg, Eric monroe. But copeland has been awesome in this role. Can he do it w the water bug in his grill?


I have seen LSU and they have great talent. money bought them a top 5 talent base really. They are a mix bt duke and Memphis in many ways. Bigger than Memphis and more skilled but just as athletic. Not on dukes level though.

unfortunately it’s also a popular upset pick down south which is not good. They are sneaking up on no one.

Regardless I will carry the torch from section 110. Beating amaker when it mAttered this year means they have already won at least in my book. Go bulldogs!



 
palestra38 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-18-19 09:23 PM - Post#281976    
    In response to james

Great to hear from a Yale fan. Hope you stay with us. Good luck!

 
Naismith 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-18-19 10:06 PM - Post#281984    
    In response to james

Yes, major home bag job at Memphis. Good luck this week. Yale earned it in final 15 minutes.

 
james 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-18-19 10:39 PM - Post#281986    
    In response to Naismith

also and As a preface I have tremendous respect for what Harvard has built...but to hear Amaker say Yale is the most talented team in the league is just laughable. And convenient.

Next year harvard is terrifying and you could have said that for at least 2-3 years running. On paper. My guess is next year will be the year. But let’s stay honest until then

they recruit on a different level.

 
PennFan10 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-18-19 11:11 PM - Post#281992    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
Great to hear from a Yale fan. Hope you stay with us. Good luck!



Agree, even one who refers to himself in the 3rd person.

 
james 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-18-19 11:24 PM - Post#281996    
    In response to PennFan10

James=James Jones. No I am not him. So those are two different ppl you are confusing as one. I am but a different James. But I know the James oft cited above quite well:)

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-19-19 02:21 PM - Post#282080    
    In response to james

Wonder if Yale can draw fouls on LSU?
Eli's were 54-56 from the line in the Ivy Tournament.

LSU is a strong FT shooting squad, shooting 75.4% on the season compared to Yale's 73.6%.

LSU did exhibit a strong "FT defense" by holding opponents to 68.8%

 
Bruno 
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So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-19-19 11:20 PM - Post#282167    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I love that the opponents’ FT pct is a stat. I’ve actually paid some attention to it because Brown’s FT defense tends to be pretty good. Top 40 in the nation this year!

Do we think there is *anything* to this statistic? Like some modest correlation between it and home court advantage? Or to foul committed rate? Or to overall defensive efficiency?
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
penn nation 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-20-19 12:04 AM - Post#282177    
    In response to Bruno

Penn did a great job at defending the FTs last year. They won the IL title, so clearly that's really all you need.

 
bradley 
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03-21-19 09:23 AM - Post#282307    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Tough match up for Yale as LSU has 3 very athletic guards that can press with 2 big men to protect the rim. They have a bunch of 4 and 5 star recruit plus the usual transfers from junior colleges or big programs, i.e. Oregon.

Yale could not handle the press from Duke at all. Hopefully, they have practiced breaking the press but Phils, Copeland and Oni could not get it done against Duke regarding the press. If Yale handles the press, they will be very competitive as they have a seasoned experienced team with one and possibly two NBA draft prospects. One of the keys to this game is Bruner defensively and he needs to really step up without major foul trouble. LSU has two bigs that can play and they will put them on the court at the same time which is normally a problem for IL teams although Yale might be an exception based on Bruner, Atkinson and Reynolds combination although Reynolds will give up several inches but he is tough.

First 10 minutes will be telling regarding the press.

Jones has brough Yale to 2 NCAA tournaments in four years -- impressive. Copeland, Phils and Reynolds have been there before in lesser roles. Jones does not get the credit that he deserves -- he if good and a tough minded coach.

Let's go Yale. Will be great for the IL if they play tough but more importantly, they win -- they might just do that.

 
bradley 
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03-21-19 12:37 PM - Post#282326    
    In response to bradley

A concern with Yale is that it appears that they took their foot off the pedal after clinching an IvyMadness bid as well as the possible let down against Princeton -- never a good sign.

 
bradley 
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03-21-19 12:48 PM - Post#282329    
    In response to bradley

Waters may stop Copeland.

 
bradley 
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03-21-19 12:52 PM - Post#282333    
    In response to bradley

Brutal start offensively and defensively, 0-9. Oni needs to stop the bleeding asap.

 
westcoast 
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03-21-19 01:12 PM - Post#282340    
    In response to bradley

Looks like Swain will be the one to stop the bleeding, keeping them in the game with 8 early points. But this LSU team is really good.

 
bradley 
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03-21-19 01:19 PM - Post#282345    
    In response to westcoast

ah - LSU is very good. Lead got down to 2 pts but back up to 9. Reynolds seems lost out on the court due to his lack of athleticism but he is a senior. If IL is going to compete against this type of team, they need to have athleticism plus skill. Copeland, Oni, Swain and Bruner can play with these guys but the others???

 
sparman 
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So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-21-19 01:28 PM - Post#282348    
    In response to bradley

Yale starters shooting 6 of 29.

 
bradley 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-21-19 01:37 PM - Post#282349    
    In response to sparman

Men against boys in the 1st half -- Copeland and Swain have come to play but not so with other Bulldogs --- need to get a good run at the beginning of the 2nd half to have a prayer.

1st half demonstrates the importance of having a great PG, Waters, and two good defenders/rebounders which IL teams do not generally have.

Let's hope that they come out on fire.

Good advertisement as to why it is always better to be a #11-12 seed vs. 14 or 16 seed. LSU is athletic!!!

 
Mike Porter 
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03-21-19 01:54 PM - Post#282355    
    In response to bradley

Yeah this looks like an even worse match up than I thought. Let’s see if they can make a run

 
HGA 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-21-19 01:57 PM - Post#282358    
    In response to bradley

A win for Yale is a win for the Ivys. Harder to compete when you don't give athletic scholarships and even harder to compete with the academic requirements. With that said, the Ivy talent continues to improve but will continue to be a challenge.

 
bradley 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-21-19 02:30 PM - Post#282371    
    In response to HGA

Showing great fight as a team with no quit. Can hit any 3 pointers which is a killer. They are certainly not embarassing the IL. Think that it helps that Yale is a seasoned team and did not lay a egg even after a 0-9 start and 16 pt 1st half deficit.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-21-19 02:31 PM - Post#282372    
    In response to bradley

Yale in bonus. Big help if they can draw some fouls

 
bradley 
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Re: So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-21-19 02:35 PM - Post#282376    
    In response to bradley

4-26 on 3 pointers and down only 9 -- ouch.

 
sparman 
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So... anyone going to talk about LSU?
03-21-19 02:39 PM - Post#282380    
    In response to bradley

Oni (currently 1-13) going to be haunted by this game a long time.

[edit: Barring possible late game heroics]

Edited by sparman on 03-21-19 02:41 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
penn nation 
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03-21-19 02:40 PM - Post#282381    
    In response to sparman

  • sparman Said:
Oni (currently 1-13) going to be haunted by this game a long time.



Matt Maloney says hi.

 
Chip Bayers 
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03-21-19 02:48 PM - Post#282395    
    In response to penn nation

  • penn nation Said:
  • sparman Said:
Oni (currently 1-13) going to be haunted by this game a long time.



Matt Maloney says hi.



Yup. Channneled him.


 
Mike Porter 
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03-21-19 02:50 PM - Post#282401    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Man, hell of a push from Yale!

 
Mike Porter 
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03-21-19 02:52 PM - Post#282405    
    In response to Mike Porter

Oni just didn't have it which is a shame, but still hell of a game from Yale and still a good rep for the league. Shame is that if Oni could have done even a little, this could have been a win.

 
bradley 
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03-21-19 03:00 PM - Post#282411    
    In response to Mike Porter

It is always enjoyable to watch these top 25 rpi schools sweat it when they are trying to fend off the Ivy League "boys". Proud of Yale considering their horrible 3 pt shooting. They showed up in the 2nd half -- they had plenty of opportunities to quit.

Although IL BB continues to take steps forward, there is still a significant discrepancy when it comes to physical prowess, height and strength, plus top programs have spectacular point guard play.

Yale was the best representative team for the IL this year at the Big Dance and they had earned the right to go. Congratulations for a job well done.

 
mobrien 
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03-21-19 03:02 PM - Post#282412    
    In response to Mike Porter

Man, Yale would have had a great chance to win if Oni just didn't have his worst game of the year, 2 of 16 from the field. A bunch of his misses were open looks too. The one from the top of the key when they were down six with a minute to go was the most painful.

Copeland was great, the bigs mostly held their own. Everything was there for the upset.

 
penn nation 
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03-21-19 03:06 PM - Post#282413    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Maloney stat line, 2nd round vs Florida in 1994:

4 for 21. 2 for 16 from 3.

  • Chip Bayers Said:
  • penn nation Said:
  • sparman Said:
Oni (currently 1-13) going to be haunted by this game a long time.



Matt Maloney says hi.



Yup. Channneled him.




 
Mike Porter 
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03-21-19 03:19 PM - Post#282415    
    In response to mobrien

Yeah that part is a shame, and the whole team missed a lot of open 3's.

They lost by 5 after shooting 8 for 37 from 3. If they hit just 2 more 3's to go a still miserable 10 for 37, they win it.

Ah well, still a good rep for the league and hell of a second half effort.

Yale is losing a lot of key pieces here... top penetrator in Copeland, top defender in Phils, and sneaky good PF in Reynolds who could stretch the floor. Swain and Atkinson step right into the starting 5, but that 5 doesn't penetrate as well or defend at guard as well (shooting is prob a push and Atkinson is a better post defender so they get better inside defense and worse at guard).

Will be interesting to see who steps up for them from the bench/frosh and if it will be enough to get back to this level next year.

 
PennFan10 
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03-21-19 03:26 PM - Post#282416    
    In response to mobrien

  • mobrien Said:
Man, Yale would have had a great chance to win if Oni just didn't have his 2nd worst game of the year, 2 of 16 from the field. A bunch of his misses were open looks too. The one from the top of the key when they were down six with a minute to go was the most painful.

Copeland was great, the bigs mostly held their own. Everything was there for the upset.



Fixed this for you. Point is the same, Oni wasn't Oni.


 
bradley 
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03-21-19 03:48 PM - Post#282419    
    In response to Mike Porter

It is always a good barometer to take a look at the LSU/Yale game to see how far away the Ivies are to have a top 50 team let alone a top 25 team in addition to when the league will be a legitimate two bid league.

The obvious question is how good will Harvard be next year if Towns is back and the players are healthy similar to Yale this year. My gut tells me that they should be very good although there are some questions as to the Center and PG positions. Can Lewis and some other legitimate big play against a team with the two LSU bigs? -- I am not sure about that. Lewis is strong and can jump but he is probably two inches shorter than ideal plus he obviously gets in foul trouble. As to the other big, who would that legitimately be -- Baker??? Aiken is great but he is not a distributor of the ball like the LSU PG.

If Harvard is good enough next year to get a bid regardless of IvyMadness and they lose against another Ivy team in the IvyMadness final, the league could get two bids for one year with a lot of ifs -- also, does Harvard lose in having IvyMadness homecourt?. Is it probably unlikely that there will be two IL teams good enough next year to get NCAA bids on their own next year based on non-conference and IL play, but you never know. Time will tell.

There are a lot of really good college basketball teams out there including LSU thus year and I doubt that they will make the sweet 16.

 
HGA 
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03-21-19 04:19 PM - Post#282423    
    In response to bradley

I've said this in an earlier post (but slightly differently) that it will be difficult for an Ivy team to be top 50 solely because they can't provide athletic scholarships and because of the higher academic standards. Additionally, and on a separate note around "bigs", there is an abundance of guard talent in the league, more so than at the 4/5 position. This is reflected in the postseason awards. Its hard for the Ivys to attract 3+ star big men, as there are fewer of them out there. Without them, it is harder to compete against the top 50 teams.

 
penn nation 
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03-21-19 04:25 PM - Post#282424    
    In response to HGA

LSU has big men with guardlike moves, and then some. Tough to beat teams like that.

 
Dr. V 
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03-21-19 04:27 PM - Post#282425    
    In response to HGA

Yale played well, but the game reminded me of my initial puzzlement when Oni won POY over Matt Morgan. The League has the second highest scorer in its history, Cornell outperforms expectations both a year ago and this last year, and Morgan doesn’t get POY?

 
sparman 
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03-21-19 04:34 PM - Post#282428    
    In response to penn nation

There is always room for one more in the Pit of Misery.

 
Old Bear 
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03-21-19 04:39 PM - Post#282430    
    In response to sparman

Or in the Fireswamp.

 
bradley 
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03-21-19 04:50 PM - Post#282432    
    In response to HGA

he bigs are getting better in the Ivies including larger and more athletic, i.e. Tape and Arirguzoh, but they are simply not at the level of top major tier teams as you suggest.

Watching the freshmen bigs from LSU is simply a reality check. Understandably, we want to believe that we are getting better and closer to the best conferences but there is a long way to go and it will be difficult to ever get there.

To be a top 50 and especially top 25 team requires a brutal non-conference schedule and you need to win games as well.



 
mrjames 
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03-21-19 06:14 PM - Post#282439    
    In response to HGA

We have had four Top 50 teams this decade. Three won a game in the tournament. One won two games.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-21-19 06:49 PM - Post#282440    
    In response to mrjames

To be an at large team you likely need to be a top 30-35 team. I'd love for Harvard to be that good, but that could be a stretch. I'm hearing top 50-60. 2 bid Ivy is tough.

 
bradley 
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03-21-19 07:26 PM - Post#282441    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Although several years back, the great Crimson 2013-14 team had a final KenPom ranking of #32 and next year's Harvard team certainly appears to have a very strong upside. For two IL teams to get a bid next year would probably require the Crimson to tank in the IvyMadness finale.

Are two IL teams going to finish in the top 50 in one season????? Let's hope but .....

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-21-19 09:58 PM - Post#282446    
    In response to bradley

You need one team in the top #30 to #35 (likely the regular season champion). That team, however, needs to lose in the tournament. That loss can't be to a team ranked so los that it destroys the ranking necessary for the defeated regular season champion to qualify as an at large selection.

I'm not sure this is possible. Remember, teams like Clemson and NC State were around #35 and didn't make it as at large selections this year.

 
mrjames 
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03-21-19 10:48 PM - Post#282452    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

While the RPI is a terrible formula, the NCAA used it for ages, and just stopped doing so this year. Both Yale and Harvard are just inside the Top 50 in the RPI are were hovering around there for most of league play.

The league has already had qualified at large teams from a KenPom perspective and a resume (WAB or Strength of Record) perspective. We can argue about the selection committee, and how overly qualified an Ivy team would have to be an at large. And hopefully next year the league can stay healthy and provide a real test case for the theory.

But this year is a weird one to pick as evidentiary of a gap between the Ivies and the top tier of college basketball. A 6 played an 11 tonight and an Ivy team had beaten each of them. Ivy teams had two more wins over different 11 seeds. As a league I can’t remember a year with more outright Tier A and B wins, leaving aside the myriad games against that caliber of competition that were close losses.

As for Clemson and NC St... NC St committed scheduling suicide or else would have been in the tourney. Clemson went 1-for-like-50 in Q1 games.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
03-22-19 02:35 AM - Post#282462    
    In response to mrjames

I saw that it took Yale a while to get used to the LSU bigs, but once they did, the athletic difference was not large. Copeland again looked the most like an NBA player to me, although I know his chances are slim. LSU's point guard Waters is very good, but his second half was not that great except for foul shooting. Yale had more good shots in total than LSU over the course of the game, they just couldn't hit anything from deep.

 
james 
Masters Student
Posts: 777

Age: 48
Reg: 03-18-19
03-25-19 11:40 AM - Post#282660    
    In response to SRP

Bruner played great.

Atkinson was solid. Reynolds, Oni, etc just didnt hit outside shots.

Tos were controlled well. Also rebounded very solidly. if you hit more shots rebounding probably looks -3 which is incredible against them.

again, you have to make shots, particularly Open ones!

as noted BEFORE the game by ME...Lsu is top 5 talent in the US of A. They cheat, after all.

They were more impressive in person. and i have watched a handful of games being in SEC country.

 
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