palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 10:34 AM - Post#282030
Major Big 5 News:
https://www.philly.com/college-sports/phil-m artell...
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3044
Reg: 10-20-14
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03-19-19 10:40 AM - Post#282032
In response to palestra38
Just saw that!
Here's something from the St. Joe's student newspaper from 3 weeks ago:
https://www.sjuhawknews.com/?p=11760
- Recruits want to play for coaches like Duke University’s Mike Krzyzewski, Syracuse University’s Jim Boeheim and University of North Carolina’s Roy Williams.
This makes it difficult for programs like St. Joe’s, because transcendent talent will most likely not land on Hawk Hill based solely on Martelli’s coaching merits. And if you can’t land five star athletes, you have to have viable coaching and game plans in order to succeed on a national scale.
Martelli has proven that the status quo of his coaching alone is not a viable path for a successful program, as it has been in the past. One can’t ride on the coattails of previous success for eternity. There is an end to everything, including coaching tenures.
Figures such as Brett Favre, Joe Paterno and Kobe Bryant stubbornly prolonged their respective careers to the overwhelming detriment of their legacy.
There is never an inherent expiration on one’s career, so knowing when to walk away is not always obvious. But for Martelli, and his legacy’s sake, it’s time to go. -
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 10:41 AM - Post#282033
In response to palestra38
Very sorry to see this, but not a complete surprise.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 10:45 AM - Post#282035
In response to rbg
The school is far more of a problem than Martelli. And the conference is nothing like it once was. St. Joe's is a MAAC level program playing 2 steps up (Colonial in between).
Like Temple, though, beware of what they wish for.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 10:52 AM - Post#282036
In response to palestra38
Probably the end of playing any of their home games at the Palestra.
I'm not so sure about them being in over their heads. By that argument, you could trim that league back to 10 by cutting LaSalle, Fordham, Duquesne, and even St. Bonaventure. Martelli can still coach, but he isn't getting the local talent he used to. I agree his successor may not fare much better.
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 11:00 AM - Post#282038
In response to Streamers
A few years ago I said to others:
Temple fans are unhappy with Fran Dunphy because he has not had the record of Jay Wright.
St. Joe fans are unhappy with Phil Martelli because he has not had the record of Fran Dunphy.
Penn fans are unhappy with Jerome Allen because he has not had the record of Phil Martelli.
That was probably after LaSalle had their Sweet 16 run and why they were not included in the discussion.
It was poetic license then, but now, other than Villanova, every other job in the city, including Drexel, has turned over. We await the results.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 11:01 AM - Post#282039
In response to Streamers
Next year is our home game, so presumably, any change will occur in 2021
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1150
Reg: 07-28-07
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03-19-19 11:10 AM - Post#282042
In response to palestra38
Interesting coincidence that Martelli and Dunphy, both of whom used to come from SW Philly to sneak into the Palestra, end their respective long tenures at the same time. Two very good coaches and two very good men whose dedication to Coaches vs Cancer made the Philly chapter one of the strongest in the nation. Good luck in the future to both of these fine men.
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 354
Reg: 03-25-09
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03-19-19 11:28 AM - Post#282046
In response to SteveChop
Dunphy to SJU?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 11:33 AM - Post#282048
In response to yoyo
I assume you are being sarcastic.
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 354
Reg: 03-25-09
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03-19-19 11:57 AM - Post#282053
In response to palestra38
I have heard rumblings that he wants to still coach. Not sure how that is sarcastic
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 11:59 AM - Post#282054
In response to yoyo
Because the St Joe's fan base would go ape-sh.t if they brought in Dunphy after Martelli, whom they claim is too old and hasn't won. They will hire a young coach.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23199
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 12:07 PM - Post#282057
In response to palestra38
Good thing we didn't make the Big Dance. Otherwise, they might be looking at our coach.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 12:22 PM - Post#282058
In response to 10Q
Penn won't lose a coach to St Joe's
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 12:38 PM - Post#282060
In response to palestra38
FWIW, here is the internal memo
TO: The SJU Community
FROM: Jill Bodensteiner, Director of Athletics
RE: Change in Coaching Leadership
Following a comprehensive review of the men’s basketball program, I have decided to make a change in the leadership of the program. The decision was not an easy one, but I believe it is the right one – for both the men’s basketball program and the institution as a whole.
We will immediately start the search for a new head coach, with the goal of having the new head coach onboard in the coming weeks.
I want to make two important points: (1) Coach Phil Martelli stands out among his peers in college basketball not only for his long tenure and the many accolades that he and his teams have achieved, but also for his engagement with the community and his service as a wonderful ambassador for SJU. The University recognizes and celebrates the history and heart that Coach Martelli brought to the program and thanks him for his long service, dedication and stewardship. (2) Basketball is an important strategic asset for the University. We have a storied history, and we move forward with the desire and intent to build upon that history, develop a sustained and consistent culture of excellence, and compete for NCAA tournament appearances and conference championships every year.
In closing, I promise to continue to work extremely hard to ensure that Saint Joseph’s Athletics and our student-athletes remain a source of great pride to the University community. The Hawk Will Never Die.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1877
Reg: 11-29-04
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03-19-19 12:45 PM - Post#282062
In response to palestra38
I have often wondered if the decline of the Sonny HIll league has hurt Philly college basketball. The league connected the players and coaches, and gave people a reason to want to continue their rivalries in college in front of their friends and family. Local recruiting is so important for the base of talent for the Philly colleges. In an era where national recruiting becomes more important, only Villanova has been able to establish a truly national recruiting draw. None of the schools have been the anointed favorites of the sneaker companies. Without either national branding or the local loyalty that the Sonny Hill league fostered, I'm afraid the Big 5 will continue to decline.
The solution is for one of the schools to sell themselves and the Philly market to the sneaker companies more aggressively as an urban basketball brand (probably Temple), but that is akin to selling your soul to the devil.
https://delgrecowilson.com/2015/08/20/the-declin in...
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23199
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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Martelli Fired 03-19-19 12:55 PM - Post#282065
In response to Penndemonium
The solution is for Penn to give out a few athletic scholarships.
And yes, I know it's not going to happen.
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 354
Reg: 03-25-09
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03-19-19 12:58 PM - Post#282066
In response to Penndemonium
I have often wondered if the decline of the Sonny HIll league has hurt Philly college basketball. The league connected the players and coaches, and gave people a reason to want to continue their rivalries in college in front of their friends and family. Local recruiting is so important for the base of talent for the Philly colleges. In an era where national recruiting becomes more important, only Villanova has been able to establish a truly national recruiting draw. None of the schools have been the anointed favorites of the sneaker companies. Without either national branding or the local loyalty that the Sonny Hill league fostered, I'm afraid the Big 5 will continue to decline.
The solution is for one of the schools to sell themselves and the Philly market to the sneaker companies more aggressively as an urban basketball brand (probably Temple), but that is akin to selling your sole to the devil.
https://delgrecowilson.com/2015/08/20/the-declin in...
FTFY
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1877
Reg: 11-29-04
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03-19-19 01:03 PM - Post#282067
In response to 10Q
Fran Dunphy and Phil Martelli were great for the local community, but the next coaches will need to do more work beyond their teams to rebuild Philly Hoops - and in so doing lift their own boats. The Big 5 could become a darling of TV and sneaker companies if branded and pursued the right way. It has a blend of 1) big market; 2) best Urban local competition; 3) street cred and history; and 4) ability to influence sneaker buying behavior in America.
Even as I say that, I'm debating to myself whether I actually want to see the Big 5 in the pocket of Adidas and Nike...
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 01:10 PM - Post#282069
In response to Penndemonium
Obviously, the main factor of any real Big 5 would be to play all the games at the Palestra. That was the reason for its success during its heyday and nothing will make a cross-town rivalry game at any of the other buildings of interest to the nation. But a well financed series from the Palestra before packed houses would indeed make a difference.
This would take a whole lot of money, because the risk of giving up home games is real---Villanova left because of the perception that it was leaving NCAA bids on the table. I don't see this happening, as much as I would like to re-create the atmosphere of the games of the '70s.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1150
Reg: 07-28-07
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03-19-19 02:04 PM - Post#282078
In response to palestra38
This really represents the end of an era in Philadelphia Mens BBall coaches. Jay Wright is now the dean of Philly coaches and Steve Donahue is now SECOND in terms of tenure at the Philly Big 6 schools after only 4 years.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3615
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Martelli Fired 03-19-19 03:45 PM - Post#282097
In response to SteveChop
If you ever read the St Joes board, their fans have been ready for Coach Martelli to go for a long time.
He is a great guy and ambassador for Big 5, but the reality is that he never capitalized on that Elite 8 run with Jameer and had only been back to the big dance a few times since then.
A quick survey of their results, and they have lost 20 games in a season 3 times since their Elite 8 run. The same number of times they’ve made the tournament (3) since the Elite 8 run. In those 3 times they only won 1 game. The Elite 8 run was 15 years ago so there have been more ups and downs but more downs than ups it looks like (he seems to be about a .500 coach since then).
Can they do better? Who knows, but they know what they are going to get if they kept him and have ambitions to do more, so time will tell if they made the right choice.
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 354
Reg: 03-25-09
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03-19-19 04:23 PM - Post#282114
In response to Mike Porter
and when jay wright goes to the sixers, Steve will be Dean
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23199
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 04:27 PM - Post#282116
In response to yoyo
Trust the Process. Trust Brett.
Plan B: Jay Wright
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3044
Reg: 10-20-14
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Martelli Fired 05-29-19 11:33 PM - Post#284873
In response to 10Q
Mike Jensen tweeted that Phil Martelli has an offer to be an assistant coach at Michigan.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jensenoffcampus/statu s/...
Mike Jensen
@jensenoffcampus
Phil Martelli has a firm offer from Michigan to be an assistant coach under new head coach Juwan Howard, according to several sources.
9:10 PM · May 29, 2019 ·
Edited by rbg on 05-29-19 11:33 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Martelli Fired 05-30-19 08:34 AM - Post#284878
In response to rbg
He can be Juwann Howard's Glen Miller
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4894
Reg: 02-04-06
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06-02-19 05:50 PM - Post#284926
In response to palestra38
Howard had a rep as a wise and wily player during most of his career. It will be interesting to see if that translates.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-03-19 04:52 PM - Post#284942
In response to SRP
Deal is done: https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/st-joe s/ph...
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-05-19 08:59 AM - Post#284970
In response to palestra38
Good article on how Martelli got to Ann Arbor:
https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/phil-m arte...
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1877
Reg: 11-29-04
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06-05-19 01:58 PM - Post#284974
In response to palestra38
Glad to see Martelli land on his feet. Perhaps this gives him a chance to live out some dreams that he wouldn't be able to at St. Joe's, even as an assistant. Michigan will recruit at the highest levels and he'll have a chance to be in the national discussion again.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21086
Reg: 12-02-04
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06-05-19 03:23 PM - Post#284979
In response to Penndemonium
The real question is how in the blazes is Juwan Howard the head coach and Martelli a mere assistant?
At least he'll have far more backup than Jerome did (not even bringing up the other stuff).
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-05-19 03:28 PM - Post#284981
In response to penn nation
Kevin Ollie didn't have a clue....and hired Glen Miller to be the coach behind the scenes (where he does his best). Hiring an beloved alum is old school thinking---indeed, Bilsky did it rather than hire someone who knew what he was doing.
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