palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 10:34 AM - Post#282030
Major Big 5 News:
https://www.philly.com/college-sports/phil-m artell...
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3050
Reg: 10-20-14
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03-19-19 10:40 AM - Post#282032
In response to palestra38
Just saw that!
Here's something from the St. Joe's student newspaper from 3 weeks ago:
https://www.sjuhawknews.com/?p=11760
- Recruits want to play for coaches like Duke University’s Mike Krzyzewski, Syracuse University’s Jim Boeheim and University of North Carolina’s Roy Williams.
This makes it difficult for programs like St. Joe’s, because transcendent talent will most likely not land on Hawk Hill based solely on Martelli’s coaching merits. And if you can’t land five star athletes, you have to have viable coaching and game plans in order to succeed on a national scale.
Martelli has proven that the status quo of his coaching alone is not a viable path for a successful program, as it has been in the past. One can’t ride on the coattails of previous success for eternity. There is an end to everything, including coaching tenures.
Figures such as Brett Favre, Joe Paterno and Kobe Bryant stubbornly prolonged their respective careers to the overwhelming detriment of their legacy.
There is never an inherent expiration on one’s career, so knowing when to walk away is not always obvious. But for Martelli, and his legacy’s sake, it’s time to go. -
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8220
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 10:41 AM - Post#282033
In response to palestra38
Very sorry to see this, but not a complete surprise.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 10:45 AM - Post#282035
In response to rbg
The school is far more of a problem than Martelli. And the conference is nothing like it once was. St. Joe's is a MAAC level program playing 2 steps up (Colonial in between).
Like Temple, though, beware of what they wish for.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8220
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 10:52 AM - Post#282036
In response to palestra38
Probably the end of playing any of their home games at the Palestra.
I'm not so sure about them being in over their heads. By that argument, you could trim that league back to 10 by cutting LaSalle, Fordham, Duquesne, and even St. Bonaventure. Martelli can still coach, but he isn't getting the local talent he used to. I agree his successor may not fare much better.
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 11:00 AM - Post#282038
In response to Streamers
A few years ago I said to others:
Temple fans are unhappy with Fran Dunphy because he has not had the record of Jay Wright.
St. Joe fans are unhappy with Phil Martelli because he has not had the record of Fran Dunphy.
Penn fans are unhappy with Jerome Allen because he has not had the record of Phil Martelli.
That was probably after LaSalle had their Sweet 16 run and why they were not included in the discussion.
It was poetic license then, but now, other than Villanova, every other job in the city, including Drexel, has turned over. We await the results.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 11:01 AM - Post#282039
In response to Streamers
Next year is our home game, so presumably, any change will occur in 2021
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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03-19-19 11:10 AM - Post#282042
In response to palestra38
Interesting coincidence that Martelli and Dunphy, both of whom used to come from SW Philly to sneak into the Palestra, end their respective long tenures at the same time. Two very good coaches and two very good men whose dedication to Coaches vs Cancer made the Philly chapter one of the strongest in the nation. Good luck in the future to both of these fine men.
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 363
Reg: 03-25-09
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03-19-19 11:28 AM - Post#282046
In response to SteveChop
Dunphy to SJU?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 11:33 AM - Post#282048
In response to yoyo
I assume you are being sarcastic.
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 363
Reg: 03-25-09
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03-19-19 11:57 AM - Post#282053
In response to palestra38
I have heard rumblings that he wants to still coach. Not sure how that is sarcastic
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 11:59 AM - Post#282054
In response to yoyo
Because the St Joe's fan base would go ape-sh.t if they brought in Dunphy after Martelli, whom they claim is too old and hasn't won. They will hire a young coach.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 12:07 PM - Post#282057
In response to palestra38
Good thing we didn't make the Big Dance. Otherwise, they might be looking at our coach.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 12:22 PM - Post#282058
In response to 10Q
Penn won't lose a coach to St Joe's
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8220
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 12:38 PM - Post#282060
In response to palestra38
FWIW, here is the internal memo
TO: The SJU Community
FROM: Jill Bodensteiner, Director of Athletics
RE: Change in Coaching Leadership
Following a comprehensive review of the men’s basketball program, I have decided to make a change in the leadership of the program. The decision was not an easy one, but I believe it is the right one – for both the men’s basketball program and the institution as a whole.
We will immediately start the search for a new head coach, with the goal of having the new head coach onboard in the coming weeks.
I want to make two important points: (1) Coach Phil Martelli stands out among his peers in college basketball not only for his long tenure and the many accolades that he and his teams have achieved, but also for his engagement with the community and his service as a wonderful ambassador for SJU. The University recognizes and celebrates the history and heart that Coach Martelli brought to the program and thanks him for his long service, dedication and stewardship. (2) Basketball is an important strategic asset for the University. We have a storied history, and we move forward with the desire and intent to build upon that history, develop a sustained and consistent culture of excellence, and compete for NCAA tournament appearances and conference championships every year.
In closing, I promise to continue to work extremely hard to ensure that Saint Joseph’s Athletics and our student-athletes remain a source of great pride to the University community. The Hawk Will Never Die.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1896
Reg: 11-29-04
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03-19-19 12:45 PM - Post#282062
In response to palestra38
I have often wondered if the decline of the Sonny HIll league has hurt Philly college basketball. The league connected the players and coaches, and gave people a reason to want to continue their rivalries in college in front of their friends and family. Local recruiting is so important for the base of talent for the Philly colleges. In an era where national recruiting becomes more important, only Villanova has been able to establish a truly national recruiting draw. None of the schools have been the anointed favorites of the sneaker companies. Without either national branding or the local loyalty that the Sonny Hill league fostered, I'm afraid the Big 5 will continue to decline.
The solution is for one of the schools to sell themselves and the Philly market to the sneaker companies more aggressively as an urban basketball brand (probably Temple), but that is akin to selling your soul to the devil.
https://delgrecowilson.com/2015/08/20/the-declin in...
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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Martelli Fired
03-19-19 12:55 PM - Post#282065
In response to Penndemonium
The solution is for Penn to give out a few athletic scholarships.
And yes, I know it's not going to happen.
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 363
Reg: 03-25-09
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03-19-19 12:58 PM - Post#282066
In response to Penndemonium
I have often wondered if the decline of the Sonny HIll league has hurt Philly college basketball. The league connected the players and coaches, and gave people a reason to want to continue their rivalries in college in front of their friends and family. Local recruiting is so important for the base of talent for the Philly colleges. In an era where national recruiting becomes more important, only Villanova has been able to establish a truly national recruiting draw. None of the schools have been the anointed favorites of the sneaker companies. Without either national branding or the local loyalty that the Sonny Hill league fostered, I'm afraid the Big 5 will continue to decline.
The solution is for one of the schools to sell themselves and the Philly market to the sneaker companies more aggressively as an urban basketball brand (probably Temple), but that is akin to selling your sole to the devil.
https://delgrecowilson.com/2015/08/20/the-declin in...
FTFY
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1896
Reg: 11-29-04
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03-19-19 01:03 PM - Post#282067
In response to 10Q
Fran Dunphy and Phil Martelli were great for the local community, but the next coaches will need to do more work beyond their teams to rebuild Philly Hoops - and in so doing lift their own boats. The Big 5 could become a darling of TV and sneaker companies if branded and pursued the right way. It has a blend of 1) big market; 2) best Urban local competition; 3) street cred and history; and 4) ability to influence sneaker buying behavior in America.
Even as I say that, I'm debating to myself whether I actually want to see the Big 5 in the pocket of Adidas and Nike...
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-19 01:10 PM - Post#282069
In response to Penndemonium
Obviously, the main factor of any real Big 5 would be to play all the games at the Palestra. That was the reason for its success during its heyday and nothing will make a cross-town rivalry game at any of the other buildings of interest to the nation. But a well financed series from the Palestra before packed houses would indeed make a difference.
This would take a whole lot of money, because the risk of giving up home games is real---Villanova left because of the perception that it was leaving NCAA bids on the table. I don't see this happening, as much as I would like to re-create the atmosphere of the games of the '70s.
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