palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32680
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-19 11:32 AM - Post#283683
In response to PennFan10
Then make it 4 for me.
Love it, but just cannot see it. 50th?? Did we recruit the second coming of LeBron?
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-19 01:32 PM - Post#283688
In response to palestra38
I mean... what do you propose?
Penn finished 98th in Bart's rankings this year. The team loses minimal offensive firepower and gets back a guy who narrowly edged Brodeur in offensive VORP as a sophomore. Also, the freshman class is deep and should pull a couple positive contributors.
I think the Quakers are extremely vulnerable to injuries (lots of downside risk in that No. 50 rank), but at full health, I'm just curious the extent of what we're quibbling over here. I think we'd all agree that they should outperform their finish of 98th. What do you guys think? 75th is more reasonable (frankly, I think the defense will take a step back and the team should start closer to 75th than 50th, but I don't find 50th to be insane...).
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32680
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-19 01:36 PM - Post#283689
In response to mrjames
I don't think anyone here believes Penn finished the year much better than 150 or so. Yes, we see the chance to win the Ivies next year if everything breaks right and Harvard blows another game at Columbia. But the upside of a true 50 is not there. Harvard? Yes. Maybe an 80-90 for Penn.
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gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-30-06
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04-16-19 01:38 PM - Post#283690
In response to palestra38
Penn State finished this year ranked 49 at NCAA.com and expects 90% of its scoring to return...
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4894
Reg: 02-04-06
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04-16-19 09:12 PM - Post#283700
In response to gopenngo
Even a small improvement in FT shooting ought to push this unit up a few ranks.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21081
Reg: 12-02-04
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04-17-19 08:12 AM - Post#283707
In response to SRP
Betley will help do that for sure.
If AJ can improve in this area, he will be a top candidate for POY.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3765
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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04-17-19 09:50 AM - Post#283710
In response to penn nation
AJ seemed to maybe, possibly, be getting better towards the end of this past season.
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besnoah
Masters Student
Posts: 803
Reg: 12-14-05
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04-17-19 09:59 AM - Post#283712
In response to Silver Maple
I think it just felt that way because he was so far below his career FT average at the beginning of the season (53.6% in November/December) that when he merely returned to his career mark (61.3% in January/February/March) it seemed like improvement.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-17-19 06:15 PM - Post#283731
In response to palestra38
FWIW, if you split the data from X date to the end of the year generally Penn hovers right around the 98 they finished at. So, empirically, there’s no evidence that they were somehow fading.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32680
Reg: 11-21-04
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Another cut at next year 04-18-19 09:30 AM - Post#283743
In response to mrjames
Or it cannot be measured empirically, but anyone who thinks that the Penn team that lost to Harvard in the Ivy playoff with Silpe, Rothschild and Donahue playing 60 minutes (Bryce Washington--2 and Wang DNP) was nearly as good as the team that beat Villanova with Wang and Washington playing 55 minutes didn't watch those games. In all our big first half games, those two guys dominated--against NM at the Pit, they played 62 minutes and scored 28 points, against Miami they played 47 minutes with 30 points and against Nova they had 23 points in those 55 minutes ..and against N Iowa they had 20 points in 30 minutes. Once Wang went down with Washington getting an assortment of injuries a few weeks later, Penn had no depth and far less explosiveness.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2125
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Re: Another cut at next year 04-30-19 12:28 PM - Post#284014
In response to palestra38
In random Penn basketball-adjacent news, former UConn coach Kevin Ollie has sued he who shall remain perpetually nameless in West Philly for slander.
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slane
Freshman
Posts: 63
Reg: 02-09-05
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Re: Another cut at next year 04-30-19 02:00 PM - Post#284020
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Wasn’t Shonn Miller a grad transfer from Cornell?
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3765
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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04-30-19 03:30 PM - Post#284022
In response to slane
What a mess.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2125
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Re: Another cut at next year 04-30-19 03:33 PM - Post#284023
In response to slane
Wasn’t Shonn Miller a grad transfer from Cornell?
As recall, he was indeed.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32680
Reg: 11-21-04
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Another cut at next year 04-30-19 04:01 PM - Post#284025
In response to Silver Maple
Ollie tried to make Miller a scapegoat for a .500 season after Miller won a title in Ollie's name. After Miller left, Ollie let the program go into the garbage heap. I don't know where he thinks he is going with this defamation suit, but I don't see it ending well for him. The fact that Calhoun then decided to build this new program with Miller shows what the guy who was really responsible for recruiting a championship team thinks about these two.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32680
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Another cut at next year 04-30-19 04:31 PM - Post#284028
In response to palestra38
Here's the Hartford Courant Story:
https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-mens-bas ketba...
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1877
Reg: 11-29-04
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05-01-19 12:27 AM - Post#284043
In response to palestra38
While I don't wish badly for Miller and I have no idea whether he's telling the truth, I think Miller leaves a toxic trail of bad feelings in many situations.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32680
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-01-19 07:40 AM - Post#284046
In response to Penndemonium
Well, he certainly did at Penn. However, he was dealt a very very bad hand as he came in too late to recruit the first year and essentially inherited Grandieri and had to recruit an entirely new team, which team was good enough to come within a game of the title under Jerome, the worst game coach in Penn history. If you ask me (not that you did), Bilsky is the true villain and the one responsible for the 10 years in the Wilderness. And there is little question that Miller, rather than Ollie, was much more responsible for the NCAA championship, yet was scapegoated a couple of years later, after UConn's horrible move to the AAC (not that it was its choice) killed its recruiting. While I can see Miller having extremely bad feelings towards Ollie, I see no benefit to him to lie, especially when if he is lying, he threw his wife under the bus. But sometimes, a defamation suit is a good thing--it opens up the ability to prove the truth.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3614
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-01-19 02:04 PM - Post#284064
In response to palestra38
I talked to some parents of several of our favorite Quakers from that disastrous Miller era. Miller was most certainly a villain and brought much of the house down on to himself.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32680
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-01-19 02:09 PM - Post#284066
In response to Mike Porter
I agree. But it had nothing to do with his ability as a coach. Things didn't go his way and the combination of inexperience and terrible luck with injuries led him to have a near nervous breakdown. He deserved and needed to be fired. But the guy was a good coach....and a good recruiter as well.
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