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Username Post: Auburn        (Topic#23003)
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
04-07-19 09:36 AM - Post#283397    

I know that this is off topic, but for me the Virginia win was tainted. How could the refs miss the double dribble and then call the cheap foul on the missed three pointer? We complain about the poor officiating in the Ivies but this was worse. Query, was there a subconscious bias working in Virginia’s favor on the part of the refs?


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
04-07-19 09:41 AM - Post#283398    
    In response to Chet Forte

And while I am venting, why was Saajan May taken out after no-hitting Princeton for five full innings? Brett is a great coach, but he has to know that our bullpen is shaky. May was unhittable yesterday and only had something like 72 on his pitch count.


 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Auburn
04-07-19 11:17 AM - Post#283404    
    In response to Chet Forte

A lot happening in that sequence.

There's a jersey grab by the Auburn defender that goes uncalled right before the UVA player loses control of the ball, regains it and commits a clear double-dribble. Frankly, those were both pretty egregiously missed calls.

I'm not so sure, however, why the foul on the three-point shot is being referred to by some as cheap or ticky-tack. It's pretty blatant lower body contact during the shot while the defender's body is not vertical (his upper body is angled back from his lower body) along with not allowing the offensive player space to land. Very good officiating not to shrink from the moment and make the call that needed to be made.

 
Naismith 
Sophomore
Posts: 148

Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
Re: Auburn
04-07-19 11:42 AM - Post#283405    
    In response to mrjames

Totally agree. As brutal a loss as it was for Auburn after that remarkable comeback, it was clearly a foul. However, the refs did for the most part let the teams play the game with no (or very few) ticky-tack calls. You might have had 30 foul shots in a similar Saturday night Ivy game.

And the Virginia kid did have to make three consecutive FTs under indescribable pressure to get the job done. Almost a shame he wasn't inside the 2-point area when fouled and we played overtime.

 
Dr. V 
PhD Student
Posts: 1536

Reg: 11-21-04
04-07-19 02:12 PM - Post#283408    
    In response to Naismith

I think the jersey grab was after Jerome restarted his dribbling.

I don't think Saajan May had pitched more than an inning per appearance before yesterday, so it's surprising the coaches let him pitch as long as they did, not the reverse.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
04-07-19 02:57 PM - Post#283410    
    In response to Dr. V

Brett got #400 today behind great pitching including the bullpen. We have three really good starting pitchers.


 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
04-07-19 03:14 PM - Post#283411    
    In response to Chet Forte

Mike is right. The jersey grab occurred before the double dribble. And the foul on the trey was clear-cut.

I would go a little further and note a number of earlier missed calls where Virginia players were mugged without a whistle. On one of Hunter's drives, he scored through obvious contact and was gesturing all the way back down the floor at the officials complaining about not getting the FTA. The announcers were babbling at the time and didn't notice.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
04-07-19 03:42 PM - Post#283412    
    In response to Chet Forte

Mike is right. The jersey grab occurred before the double dribble. And the foul on the trey was clear-cut.

I would go a little further and note a number of earlier missed calls where Virginia players were mugged without a whistle. On one of Hunter's drives, he scored through obvious contact and was gesturing all the way back down the floor at the officials complaining about not getting the FTA. The announcers were babbling at the time and didn't notice.

 
CrimsonHoops 
Freshman
Posts: 24

Age: 70
Reg: 10-30-10
04-07-19 06:42 PM - Post#283413    
    In response to SRP

There is an additional important point to remember here. When we see the missed foul or offensive violation calls from television replay in slow motion, it often can be from a very different from what a referee sees in real time and from his respective view on the court.

I have had the opportunity to be a referee for a number of basketball games at an elite level. When you are closely following play on the court, you often have to make a strategic decision which part of the court and/or which angel you are concentrating on as a series of plays evolve. When you ref a game that is played by very tall and very fast players, it is very difficult to closely simultaneously watch the feet, middle of body and above the rim. The television networks with over a dozen cameras, especially in slow motion, will pick up many fouls that you simply miss. As a referee, you often do follow the play looking most closely from just below the waist to shoulders, which can mean that you may miss a traveling call in a game. In this case, the ref may have been concentrating on the positioning of the Auburn defender’s hands relative to the Virginia player and not having a good perspective on what happened at the feet level in real time. Unless you have a good view of a foul or an offensive violation, you tend to not make the call since you are not 100% certain of the violation.

I would love to get feedback from other persons who have been a ref or know well a ref at a high school or college level to provide their perspective on what you see on the court versus on slow motion replay.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
04-07-19 10:45 PM - Post#283415    
    In response to CrimsonHoops

The double dribble was impossible to miss.


 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
04-07-19 11:16 PM - Post#283416    
    In response to Chet Forte

Did you see it in real time? I didn’t. The announcers didn’t. It wasn’t until 10 minutes later that it even got brought up on the telecast. Yes, it is obviously a double dribble — when you see it. But you can’t call what you don’t see, and you can’t see everything.

 
Go Green 
PhD Student
Posts: 1124

Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Auburn
04-08-19 08:55 AM - Post#283421    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
Very good officiating not to shrink from the moment and make the call that needed to be made.



Bingo.

There's a school of thought that believes that when the game is on the line, only flagrant fouls get called. I am not part of that group. Great to see that the refs were not either.

As for the UVA double-dribble, the last time IU can recall refs blowing such a call was the Chris Webber traveling when he was taking the ball up the court before calling his infamous time-out. The entire North Carolina bench was furious when the refs didn't call anything.

 
Dr. V 
PhD Student
Posts: 1536

Reg: 11-21-04
04-08-19 10:41 AM - Post#283422    
    In response to SRP

I rechecked the video. Actually, it turns out that both Mike and I were right. The Auburn player grabs Ty Jerome's jersey at chest level before the double dribble and then also grabs his jersey after the double dribble as Jerome is pulling away. I saw the latter but did not see the former.

All of which just underscores the points made here that no one sees everything, even when those looking are knowledgeable and highly interested. And along with the rest of the universe, I too didn't "see" the double dribble when it happened.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
04-08-19 12:54 PM - Post#283423    
    In response to Dr. V

Bruce Pearl has been very classy about the way the game ended. He has done quite a bit to restore his reputation.


 
weinhauers_ghost 
Postdoc
Posts: 2125

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
04-08-19 03:42 PM - Post#283426    
    In response to Chet Forte

While watching the games this weekend, I was wondering whether or not Texas Tech's Davide Moretti and CU's Stefanini had ever crossed paths, since both are from Bologna.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
04-09-19 04:58 PM - Post#283470    
    In response to weinhauers_ghost

I found refereeing even an intramural game difficult, so I am 100% in concord with CrimsonHoops above.

 
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