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Username Post: Major Bitch About the Key Call in the Championship Game        (Topic#23007)
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
04-09-19 09:09 AM - Post#283436    

I don't know about the rest of you, but replay has gone too far. The key call of yesterday's game was the decision to hand back possession of the ball to Virginia after Moretti stole the ball and had it poked away after he clearly was fouled getting to the ball first. On replay, slowing it down to almost no movement, the ball still rests on Moretti's hand after the Virginia guy's poke of the ball out of bounds. 100 times out of 100, that ball goes to Texas Tech---after all, the Virginia guy clearly knocked it out of bounds. It did not hit Moretti's hand again---it simply was poked out by Virginia. My guess would be that a large percentage of the time, a ball knocked out of someone's hand still touches that player's hand after the opponent hits the ball. That is not the way the call should be made. The purpose of replay is not to change the way calls are made. That was the crucial call of the game. BS. (P.S., I had no money or rooting interest--just a great game decided by a bad use of replay).

 
HGA 
Sophomore
Posts: 106

Loc: New York
Reg: 10-16-18
Re: Major Bitch About the Key Call in the Championship Game
04-09-19 09:53 AM - Post#283437    
    In response to palestra38

Great point. The ball was clearly poked away and probably more times than not, may roll off a part of the offensive player's hand. I would not use a replay to overturn a call that looks "clean" to the naked eye. I would feel different if it was knocked off of another body part, such as a leg.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Major Bitch About the Key Call in the Championship Game
04-09-19 09:57 AM - Post#283438    
    In response to HGA

Just saw that I am not the only one with a problem about this call (although they also mention the obvious foul that was not called before the poke):
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/04/ 09/how-on...



 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Major Bitch About the Key Call in the Championship Game
04-09-19 10:27 AM - Post#283439    
    In response to palestra38

I've always hated the lack of clarity around that aspect of the out of bounds rule. Leaving aside replay, which also needs a thorough review, if two players are touching the ball at the same time, and it's clear (yes, that'll be a judgment call) that one opponent is forcing the ball toward the out of bounds line and the other is not, I don't care who the ball touched last. Agree that a leg or body, etc. is different, but if it's just hands, the player that caused the ball to go out should be who it's off of.

That is the way that the call is normally made in real time, they just need to formalize that rule.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Major Bitch About the Key Call in the Championship Game
04-09-19 10:33 AM - Post#283440    
    In response to mrjames

It's a 2 point game at that point. If TT keeps the ball, it will go to the wire. And let's face it, they overlooked a clear loose ball foul on the race to the ball. Just a miscarriage of justice.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Major Bitch About the Key Call in the Championship Game
04-09-19 11:34 AM - Post#283441    
    In response to palestra38

I'd like to add another element. I believe that sometimes referees make a choice between calling a foul or letting it go when it doesn't matter. For instance, I see shooting fouls and rebounding/reach in fouls appear to be overlooked intentionally. It seems to me that at times a ref swallows the whistle assuming that the party fouled retains possession ('let them play'), but that a replay might overturn the possession call. I'm certainly surmising, but I believe I've seen this more than a few times.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 04-09-19 11:35 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
mobrien 
Senior
Posts: 390

Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
04-09-19 03:00 PM - Post#283457    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

This is a problem the NBA has had with replay as well. There are a lot of rebounding or reach-in fouls where, in lieu of actually calling it, the refs will simply give the ball to the team that "should" have it.

The problem is when you get into the under 2 minutes: if an out of bounds call is reviewed where the refs didn't call the foul originally, they can't retroactively call it. They have to give the ball to the team that "shouldn't" have it.

The result is that refs either have to call the game much tighter in the final 2 minutes than they do the rest of the game — and who wants to see a game decided by a free throw parade on ticky tack calls? — or occasionally give the ball to the wrong team at the end of the game.

Refs need discretion, and replay unintentionally takes some of it away from them. That's to say nothing of the other issue where things look different in super slo-mo than they do in real time. The ball going off Moretti's hand is a perfect example of that.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
04-09-19 04:51 PM - Post#283467    
    In response to mobrien

I agree with Mike about the out of bounds call--the rule should be changed formally (and this was not important prior to replay, which forces us to rethink what we really want to happen)

.

 
Go Green 
PhD Student
Posts: 1124

Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Major Bitch About the Key Call in the Championship Game
04-09-19 05:19 PM - Post#283476    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
I've always hated the lack of clarity around that aspect of the out of bounds rule. Leaving aside replay, which also needs a thorough review, if two players are touching the ball at the same time, and it's clear (yes, that'll be a judgment call) that one opponent is forcing the ball toward the out of bounds line and the other is not, I don't care who the ball touched last. Agree that a leg or body, etc. is different, but if it's just hands, the player that caused the ball to go out should be who it's off of.

That is the way that the call is normally made in real time, they just need to formalize that rule.



Baseball fans make a similar gripe about using replay to show that a sliding runner popped off the bag for a nanosecond and gets called "out."


 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
04-10-19 02:36 PM - Post#283514    
    In response to SRP

One of my favorite moments of the tournament was when a normally exicitable Bruce Pearl was asked about the two calls that went against Auburn in the Virgina game right shortly after the conclusion of the game.

His response was wonderful and needless to say, classy. Basically, we (Auburn) had 40 minutes to win the game and unfortunatley, we lost. Too much crying about ref calls but mostly done by fans.

I agree that the rule should probably be changed but I think that the replay ref got it right.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
Major Bitch About the Key Call in the Championship Game
04-10-19 02:43 PM - Post#283517    
    In response to bradley

The problem is that the refs called it that way in part to overlook the obvious foul before the poke. Even then, I disagree with you that the rule was properly followed----the ball never left the players hand and touched another part of his body. If someone pokes a ball out of bounds, the fact that it hasn't fully left the offensive player's hand in the nanosecond of the poke (for that is what the difference is) doesn't mean that the player who knocked it out of bounds gets the ball. That is a total mutation of the purpose of replay. Frankly, I would venture to say that in almost all such pokes knocking a ball out of the hands of a possessing player the ball makes the final contact with the possessing player. However, the act of knocking it out of bounds without it hitting another part of the body or another player invariably gives possession to the offensive team.

 
Dr. V 
PhD Student
Posts: 1536

Reg: 11-21-04
04-10-19 10:53 PM - Post#283543    
    In response to palestra38

Actually, I thought the answer is a bit simpler. Calls on the floor are not supposed to be overturned unless there is incontrovertible evidence that the call was in error. Did the replays show that the ball may have grazed Moretti’s hand? I would say that they showed that the answer was probably. Did they show so incontrovertibly? No way. So the call should not have been reversed.

The issue, as P38 initially noted, is with the practice of using replays. Replay introduces an entirely different level of visual scrutiny and intrusion. I suspect that if the entire game were analyzed by replay play by play, then a number of other plays would have been reversed or called in the first place (we all missed the double dribble in the semis, and P38 is right about the obvious foul not called on the semi-breakaway by Moretti). But obviously no one wants that, so replays should be, and more or less are, used in a limited number of instances and should only be used to reverse a call when the evidence is really incontrovertible. Again, here it wasn’t, so the replay system was abused.

 
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