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Username Post: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations        (Topic#23031)
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
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Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
04-17-19 10:46 AM - Post#283717    

Dear All,

Long time lurker. First time poster. I have read in other threads constructive exchange of ideas as it relates to expectations for this 2016 class.

https://www.thecrimson.com/blog/the-back-page/ar ti...

Most here seem to come to the conclusion that injuries have played a big part in failing to make the NCAA Tournament. The other argument is this class has met expectations with its overall IL performance over the last three years ect ect...

So here is a basic question I have. How much of a liability is it from a pure basketball perspective (for this post relating to the 2016 class) to be a basketball player at Harvard in comparison to other programs especially Power 5?

Keep in mind looking at KenPom as the true performance barometer last year Wofford finished #18 and Buffalo #22. The examples are endless when evaluating efficiency #'s over the years and comparing many mid majors to Harvard (this with our big 2016 class).

KenPom

Harvard 2017-KP #112
Harvard 2018-KP # 141
Harvard 2019-KP # 114

So these numbers bring me to player development and culture. All coach specific issues. The SI article below highlights the journey Texas Tech took to a near National Championship. One missed Hunter 3 pt'er brings home the title. It all revolves around culture as several other articles relating to Tech have detailed.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/20 19/04/09/n...

My concern is... as our highly touted class enters their Senior season together... that our basketball culture will never be at a level where we see anything similar to what Texas Tech accomplished this year. As often stated the Harvard experience is way more than basketball. It is what happens after you LEAVE Harvard that brings in the talent. Thus De-emphasizing a true basketball winning culture (or being as efficient as your talent base)? In other words also lacking that killer mentality or street dog mentality that was preached at Tech (as one example).

Can any of Chris Beards basketball philosophies translate at Harvard (his daughter does go to Columbia lol)? Culver and Smith were 3* recruits and both will be lottery picks. Smith a one and done/Culver 2 years.

I think for me it is frustration and most likely a lack of understanding/acceptance of "what could have been" from a pure talent perspective with this class. Wofford ranked #10 in offensive efficiency this year with the likelihood no player gets drafted and just two key Senior contributors. Is Mike Young that much better than Tommy?

In general information is scarce (unless I am missing something) IMO on the off season workouts ect...where other teams make it a priority to communicate uplifting information relating to progress (strength and conditioning). It was also interesting that Bryce was not selected as a captain. I always thought he fit a similar profile to Shabazz Napier when he entered Harvard.

What are your thoughts? All opinions I respect and hope to gain knowledge from. I am not a Harvard grad (my father was) or seasoned message board poster. My career is in finance. Some of my closest friends are Harvard grads. I only have crimson blood because my sincere love of Harvard hoops.

Thank You



Edited by OnlyCrimsonBlood on 04-17-19 10:55 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
HGA 
Freshman
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Loc: New York
Reg: 10-16-18
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-17-19 02:29 PM - Post#283721    
    In response to OnlyCrimsonBlood

In response to your "basic question", I would not consider it a liability to be a basketball player at any Ivy League school versus a Power 5 program. I would say that Ivy League schools have a disadvantage in that they're choosing from a smaller population due to academics and don't offer scholarships. A big disadvantage is not being able (ala Texas Tech) to recruit graduate transfer players to fill specific, short-term needs. In regards to the 2016 class and their talent, the key is to be able to recruit at that level over multiple years. While injuries have hampered the 2016 class, they had a successful season this year and should be favored next year.

 
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
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Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
04-17-19 04:10 PM - Post#283724    
    In response to HGA

Thanks HGA

That seems to be the best case to make. Considering the IL restrictions/selectivity Harvard has overcome them to land a Top 10 class. So that clearly elevated the potential of this Senior class. Now we add Ledlum.

Do you think the cohesion element of staying together three/four years might mitigate some of the benefits teams have from tapping into the grad transfer market? Considering the Harvard class of 2016 consists of players much higher ranked than the Texas Tech grad transfers this year (Owens and Mooney)?

I am using metrics as a key determining factor of success over the last few years. In relation to other programs outside of the IL. I am fully willing to concede the likelihood of Harvard going the route of Albany/NYC/Atlanta (NCAA Tournament) is a pipe dream next year.





 
HGA 
Freshman
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Loc: New York
Reg: 10-16-18
04-17-19 04:38 PM - Post#283726    
    In response to OnlyCrimsonBlood

The cohesion element helps a lot but adding proven, tested, grad transfers can be a game changer. Both players mentioned from Texas Tech would have most likely received all-ivy recognition in our league.

 
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
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Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
04-17-19 05:51 PM - Post#283730    
    In response to HGA

I agree. No question both players committed to defense as these two were at Tech would have translated easily to 1st team IL. Mooney came in 1st team Summit if not mistaken.

 
Silver Maple 
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04-18-19 04:01 PM - Post#283773    
    In response to OnlyCrimsonBlood

OCB:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be lamenting the inability of an Ivy men's basketball team to rise to the very highest ranks of the sport. Personally, I've accepted this limitation.

I think that any player who is good enough to start for a power 5 program but who elects to attend an Ivy is essentially saying that basketball is less important to him than the player who picks the P5 school. This is a kid who is thinking long-term, who has wide-ranging interests, and who wants to get a real education, so he is willing to put in the time and effort necessary to make that happen. D1 players at top conference scholarship programs devote 50-60 hours per week in total to their sport. There's no way to do that and also get a quality education, regardless of the putative quality of the institution (I'm talking to you, Duke). Ivy players put in 20-25 hours (as I understand it). That's the tradeoff. It's a bargain that I think is well worth making, but it's going to place a significant limit on what an Ivy team can accomplish in a given sport no matter how highly rated the recruited talent.

 
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
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Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
04-18-19 06:54 PM - Post#283776    
    In response to Silver Maple

Thanks Silver

Interesting. I didn't know the break down of time allocation for basketball. Actually you are correct. I am lamenting to a certain degree about Harvard's inability to rise to the top of the sport. Although in fairness the KenPom #'s presented above fall significantly below that threshold.

You make great points that help give much better perspective. The type of basketball commitment to be successful that raises to the level of elite even for one year is an unreasonable expectation. Strength and development is crucial ect ect...that in and of itself is a huge time component at the better basketball schools (P5 or otherwise).

It is great getting a better idea of the culture and system in place at Harvard/IL's with regard to athletics/basketball.

Thanks




 
Naismith 
Freshman
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Loc: RI
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04-18-19 07:42 PM - Post#283777    
    In response to OnlyCrimsonBlood

The greatest achievement in the last 25 years for Ivy Men's basketball has been Cornell reaching the Sweet Sixteen, which is essentially the equivalent of previous Final Four history for the League. Yet with its growing competitive balance,established history and tradition, it's remains the best league to watch for we true college fans in the Northeast.

 
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
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Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-18-19 08:41 PM - Post#283783    
    In response to Naismith

Thanks Naismith

Wow...Did not realize the Cornell S16 history. Extremely rare.

Says Tim Smith: "What we did in 1979 will never happen again."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/story/...


Weinhauer -- who had taken over in November when Chuck Daly abruptly left Penn for the NBA, and who had never been a college head coach before -- crafted a handwritten letter to his players outlining the team's goals for the upcoming 1978-79 season. The most ridiculous objective on that list?

A trip to the Final Four.


What an amazing accomplishment by Penn.

I dare to dream. Why not us?

Good Night

Edited by OnlyCrimsonBlood on 04-18-19 08:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 21964

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-19-19 07:35 AM - Post#283788    
    In response to OnlyCrimsonBlood

The goal of the Final Four in 1979 was nothing like a dream since Penn had lost in the regionals the year before to the national runner up (Duke) by 4 points in a game which they led by 8 with 8 minutes to go. While the Ivies as a whole now are as strong as they have been at any time since the 1980s, they are still not on the level of the top teams. In the 1970s they were---throughout the decade. Penn had an undefeated team in 1971, Princeton won the NIT (as a 2nd place Ivy) and Penn made the Final Four. That was at a time before the big money hit and the Big East was formed.

 
Go Green 
Masters Student
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Age: 48
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-19-19 10:48 AM - Post#283809    
    In response to OnlyCrimsonBlood

  • OnlyCrimsonBlood Said:


Says Tim Smith: "What we did in 1979 will never happen again."



I dare to dream. Why not us?





Hey, if Loyola-Chicago can do it...


 
mrjames 
Professor
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-19-19 11:33 AM - Post#283811    
    In response to OnlyCrimsonBlood

Simple answer is that it's not really a liability from a basketball perspective (though some of the wonky rules that govern certain schools and the league writ large are a liability).

The big issue for Harvard is here were the top win share guys between the Siyani class of 2012 and the Top 10 class of 2016:

Zena 6.8 WS
Corey 6.6 WS
Weisner 1.3 WS
Chatfield 0.9 WS
Egi 0.9 WS
TMac 0.8 WS

With the other folks in those classes, it sums up to just shy of 18 *career* WS over three entire classes. In comparison, Wesley Saunders himself was worth roughly the same number of win shares and the 2016 class, which still has a senior year to go, is at roughly double the win shares.

The reason why Harvard had such a long run of sustained success from 2011 to 2015 including a couple Top 50 KP finishes is because it stacked the Keith Wright/McNally class with the Kyle/Curry/Webster class with the Saunders/Travis/Kenyatta/ Steve class. Even the down year included one strong contributor (Rivard in 2010).

Unless you're recruiting one-and-done NBA talent, it's really hard to rely on one class to propel the program forward with (for the last two years) no help from upperclassmen. Add in injuries, and it's pretty remarkable that this class has won two Ivy titles in a row.

For me, the biggest reason why Harvard hasn't made the NCAA Tournament is playing road Ivy tournament games instead of neutral-site playoffs.

 
palestra38 
Professor
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Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-19-19 11:39 AM - Post#283812    
    In response to mrjames

So it's all on the line for you this year. Home playoff and a senior dominated team.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
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Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
04-19-19 11:43 AM - Post#283813    
    In response to palestra38

Should be very exciting for Crimson fans.
Looking forward to it!

I see that Harvard has scheduled a game at Cal in early OCC, although the date is not set. Cal is certainly a struggling program. Assume there will be additional West Coast game(s) on that trip. Unlikely St. Mary's wants to play Harvard again until Henry Welsh graduates.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 2329

Reg: 02-15-15
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-20-19 06:03 PM - Post#283829    
    In response to mrjames

T
  • mrjames Said:

For me, the biggest reason why Harvard hasn't made the NCAA Tournament is playing road Ivy tournament games instead of neutral-site playoffs.



Mike,

You are a self proclaimed empiricist. How much exactly is HCA worth? I can see your argument, based on the numbers, for 2018, but HCA alone does not quantify the difference in this yeas ILT title game no?


 
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
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Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-21-19 09:22 AM - Post#283838    
    In response to mrjames

Mr. James,

Interesting data mining info. Thank you!

 
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
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Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-21-19 09:23 AM - Post#283839    
    In response to Go Green

Go Green,

The Loyola run was fun. Moser really did a great job. The team had some great metrics heading into March Madness.

 
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
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Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
04-21-19 09:27 AM - Post#283840    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Harvard Grad

St. Mary's should be favored to win the league over the Zags. Assuming the Zags keep losing players to the NBA. Would be great to play St. Mary's next year for a Q1 win possibility.

 
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
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Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-21-19 09:36 AM - Post#283842    
    In response to palestra38

Palestra,

I wonder what Harvard does in the off season on the player development/ strength and conditioning front? It would be fun to see something on the men's hoops twitter account showing "the basketball grind" some of the players might be involved in. lol

Do you think summer off season work outs in the IL (Harvard in particular) are substantially reduced in comparison to top basketball programs around the country? Considering all the other academic obligations the players have.

 
palestra38 
Professor
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Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-21-19 10:10 AM - Post#283843    
    In response to OnlyCrimsonBlood

I think Mike James is a much better person to ask that question. I am sure that all the Ivies now have sophisticated conditioning programs---quite the opposite of what I observed in the late '70s---had that Penn team received the kind of nutrition and conditioning that the teams now receive, they may well have won a national title. Back then, it was typical to see team members in McDonalds and Smokey Joe's, not to mention lighting up on a not-too-infrequent basis. But they were ready to play at gametime.

 
Naismith 
Freshman
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Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-21-19 10:46 AM - Post#283844    
    In response to palestra38

Not necessarily a rationale for failing to win a national title. I doubt that Penn was the only team eating at McDonald's or Smokey Joe's in the 70's. It was the culture at that time for all kids, just as the new nutritional and conditioning
programs are prevalent across the board in 2019.

Edited by Naismith on 04-21-19 10:47 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
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Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-21-19 11:00 AM - Post#283846    
    In response to Naismith

That's precisely my point. If Penn had it while Magic and Bird did not, perhaps Penn would have had a chance. Everything being equal, it was a bad year to be a Cinderella. The year before, when Penn lost a squeaker to Duke, they could have won.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
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Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-21-19 08:55 PM - Post#283849    
    In response to mrjames

Home court certainly makes a difference in the odds. However, the odds are still just the odds. Penn and Yale didn’t win simply because they had home court, and Harvard didn’t lose simply because they were on the road. Both results could have occurred at a neutral site, and Harvard could have won either year. Obvious points, perhaps, but they make it a little unfair to just say that the reason Harvard didn’t get in was the lack of a neutral setting.

 
mrjames 
Professor
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-22-19 08:01 AM - Post#283851    
    In response to SomeGuy

So, I view basketball games through the lens of win expectation. And three points to take a game from road to neutral around the center of the bell curve moves win probability a lot (12ish percentage points).

What I said was it was the “biggest factor,” not the “only factor.” It’s possible that a healthy Seth or healthy Bryce could have moved the line and thus the win exp nearly that much. But technically those were two separate factors (Bryce being injured one year and Seth another). It’s hard to think of one singular bigger factor in reducing win exp than pre-determined HCA...



 
SomeGuy 
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Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-22-19 11:33 PM - Post#283870    
    In response to mrjames

Well, I’d say the biggest factor is the quality of the teams.

 
mrjames 
Professor
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-23-19 07:48 AM - Post#283873    
    In response to SomeGuy

Let me try this one more time...

Harvard’s 2016 class has won the most Ivy games of any team over its three years despite all of the injuries and it’s clear of the field by four games. Given that, its NCAA Tournament expectation is somewhere in the neighborhood of one trip to the dance, and the singular factor impacting that expectation the most is twice playing road Ivy Tourney games.

Of course, if a team isn’t that talented, that’s going to have a larger impact on winning an Ivy Tourney than HCA (though ask Princeton *how* untalented the home team has to be to win a road game). But given that Harvard has won the most Ivy games over the past three years - by a comfortable margin - we’re within the realm where team quality is good enough that HCA is the biggest factor.

 
PennFan10 
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04-23-19 09:40 AM - Post#283880    
    In response to mrjames

Mike,

It's the biggest factor, AMONG MANY FACTORS, as in 3 pts. That doesn't explain a 12 pt loss to Yale where Harvard had already shown they can win. Another way to say what you are claiming is: Harvard did not lose in the ILT this year solely because of HCA.

 
mrjames 
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Reg: 11-21-04
04-23-19 11:36 AM - Post#283889    
    In response to PennFan10

We don't know the answer to that question.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
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Reg: 02-15-15
04-23-19 12:58 PM - Post#283891    
    In response to mrjames

So the biggest factor is HCA, it's just a very small part of the many factors that affect these outcomes. e.g. HCA is maybe a 5% factor and the next biggest is 3%, the next is 2.8%, etc, etc.

Seems like you are saying we don't know the answer at all and the biggest factor (which is a very small part of the answer and one of many factors involved) is the one we want to to focus on?

 
mrjames 
Professor
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
04-23-19 03:39 PM - Post#283902    
    In response to PennFan10

It's more than 5%.

Yale was 72% to win at Bart in 2019 and Penn was 69% in 2018. If you strip away HCA, those would fall by somewhere in the 12ish percentage point range (60% and 57%, respectively).

The percentage likelihood that Harvard loses both under the HCA scenario is 72% * 69% = 50%.

Under the no HCA scenario, the likelihood that Harvard loses both is 60% * 57% = 34%.

That's a sizeable swing in the odds of this class having made a tourney due to location alone. I'm not really sure why this is such a controversial statement.

 
palestra38 
Professor
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04-23-19 04:07 PM - Post#283903    
    In response to mrjames

Because you associate probability with cause. There was still a substantial chance of Harvard winning or losing despite HCA. But on the court, they lost.

Sort of like the 2016 election. Probability was that Clinton would win. Didn't happen--didn't make the polls or probabilities wrong.

To attribute the losses to HCA is inaccurate. They surely would have had a greater chance to win at home, but still would have had a sizable chance to lose.

Again, however, your thesis will all come up for validation this year, as Harvard's best team on paper will get the home game.

 
bradley 
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04-23-19 08:40 PM - Post#283906    
    In response to palestra38

In fairness, both injuries and not having homecourt or playing at a neutral court have been detrimental to the Crimson during the past two years. Personally, I would put greater weight on not having Towns this year at Yale and not having Aiken at the Palestra versus homecourt. I also believe that the homecourt disadvantage was even greater in 2018 vs. 2019 as to results.

I do have empathy for the Crimson players and coaching staff regarding injuries as it has been somewhat brutal. I have no empathy for Amaker or the Harvard administration regarding the homecourt disadvantage as they signed up for IvyMadness and sometimes, you get what you ask for. As to fans who supported IvyMadness sometimes you also get what you wished for.



 
SomeGuy 
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04-27-19 12:44 AM - Post#283955    
    In response to mrjames

There isn’t anything controversial about saying that HCA impacts the odds. As P38 points out, the reason I found your original statement controversial is that it appeared to attribute causation to HCA.

 
james 
Freshman
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Age: 44
Reg: 03-18-19
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-28-19 07:27 AM - Post#283960    
    In response to palestra38

The obvious and key difference is—not many kids are on campus as many scatter for internships etc so the work is individual weighted and part of a bigger grind for the ivies

at the power 5 you are expected to be around where they manage everything—nutrition, work outs individual and now team workouts which are less taboo.

Have always thought nutrition is a big disadvantage. Yale lacrosse appears to have been the exception but not sure how. Meal plan can ever compare to a training table.

 
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
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Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
04-28-19 06:17 PM - Post#283968    
    In response to james

Dear Mr. James,

Interesting facts. I understand the P5 comparison. The assumption is though this also would apply across the board to the mid major level? For instance consistently good mid-major programs (or even ones that have one special run) have a more favorable basketball culture for player development.

I think your answer goes to the heart of my subject post. It helps give perspective and temper expectations. Based on the post above the most essential factors are missing to create that truly special season. You can see the lack of physical development in some players over a 4 year stretch.

Just like anything in life there is a direct correlation to level of success and commitment. This is no indictment on IVY teams/players. Harvard in particular.

It is what it is...

Thanks Mr. James!



 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
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04-28-19 08:11 PM - Post#283970    
    In response to OnlyCrimsonBlood

BIG difference between posters “James” and “MrJames”....BIG difference.

 
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
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Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-28-19 09:21 PM - Post#283971    
    In response to PennFan10

Was looking for the edit feature after reading your post. May have timed out.

Edited by OnlyCrimsonBlood on 04-28-19 09:22 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
james 
Freshman
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04-29-19 08:03 AM - Post#283975    
    In response to OnlyCrimsonBlood

ha. true. my last thought on this....these ivy kids pay an incredible price. strength and conditioning undoubtedly has come a long way in 20 yrs since i was in the grind, but for all levels.

this being said, its a question of relative development. 20 yrs ago i remember 4 of my teammates had wall st internships for 2 of 4 yrs. we all worked out religiously when we had time but....when i played with the georgetown guys in the kenner league there was a big difference. they played on the same summer league team (i was the add on) in a very competitive league in their home gym (with a lot of mid major add ons who were locals) and went to summer school. basketball was their full time job when not in class 1-2 hrs a day all summer.

anyway, from what i can gather, it is more stark today bc you can actually work out with your coaches in the offseason. so it matters if you arent on campus in the summer.

this all being said, the ivy kids do the same during the school year so we are only really talking about 3 mos a year.

so i think the key differentiating factor is nutrition. at the ivy league level the onus is on the individual. at the power 5, its not a choice but a mandate with all the requisite convenience and availability of a training table.

lastly guys like miye oni and others have serious personal trainers in the summer. of course that helps. but its expensive unless of course you are good enough to have a future profit sharing arrangement:) so not everyone has this access.



 
bradley 
PhD Student
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Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-29-19 08:10 AM - Post#283976    
    In response to james

Although IL teams had an improved non-conference record last year, they still have a long way to go. Harvard's performance in league vs. non-conference play is very differnt over the past 3 years. Is it probably a combination of many factors including physical strength development let alone other factors including academics.

It does not appear that IL teams have the "kill" factor as part of the culture when playing lesser non-conference opponents. Obvious advantage is that IL teams have 4 year players which should work to their advantage.

Still many challenges in getting to a regular two bid league.

 
Silver Maple 
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04-29-19 03:08 PM - Post#283988    
    In response to bradley

I doubt very much that Ivy programs would ever move to a training table model, for the same reason they don't have athletic dorms and athlete-only academic tracks. Ivies want athletes to be fully integrated into the student population.

 
PennFan10 
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Reg: 02-15-15
04-30-19 10:20 AM - Post#284006    
    In response to Silver Maple

I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen. It already happens before and after games. Every team has catered meals for their team on game days and after games, both home and on the road. It's not that much of a stretch to add training table, especially when you have kids running from class to practice, then have a team lifting session followed by study hall (for the freshman) or night class. There is no opportunity to eat for many of these kids, depending on their schedule, from 3pm until 10pm. The schools should provide opportunity for nutrition for the athletes.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
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Loc: New Jersey
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04-30-19 10:43 AM - Post#284007    
    In response to PennFan10

I don't know anything about the catered meals and am surprised, at least for basketball. Recently, I've seen the following:
- Crimson players crossing the bridge to Lavietes separately one at a time about 2 hours before game time;
- A stack of pizza's being delivered to the Peter Pan bus for the ride back from Princeton; and
- Yale's entire men's basketball team eating eggs and pancakes (ordered individually) at Patricia's around 11am prior to the Tournament semifinals

Where does the training table exist?

 
james 
Freshman
Posts: 71

Age: 44
Reg: 03-18-19
04-30-19 01:50 PM - Post#284019    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

We used to get special hours in one of the residential colleges to eat when evening practice made it difficult. We also ate in the law school cafeteria on game days. The food was the same as student body. the pregame meals were better for away games.
I dropped 20 ibs in season and got weaker in the weight room. But with the benefit of hindsight I didn’t understand nutrition like I do today and no one taught me even the strength coach who fed me creatine.
I was the strongest guy on my high school team in the weight room with 7 div 1 players. I was maybe middle of the pack at best when I finished college (guessing) comparing to that same group. The hs teammates who went power 5 got much stronger. But admittedly maybe had better growth genes to begin with which is why they were recruiting on their body’s potential. Of course they also improved vertical jump etc more than I did which again could be due to growth genes as well as the strength and nutrition program. hard to pin down one variable.
The problem for the Ivy League is...32+ sports teams. A training table would have to be accessible to all. So that’s the double+ the number of teams as an avg SEC/acc school. And political correctness wouldn’t allow basketball to be treated differently like it might be as a revenue sport at say Unc duke or even an FSU.
An example...who gets the proceeds from buy in games? answer—the athletic program at large. the basketball team doesn’t fly charter to play duke despite getting paid for their efforts.

 
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
Posts: 18

Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-30-19 07:03 PM - Post#284031    
    In response to james

First off thank you for all the thoughtful and articulate responses to this SH post. I have learned quite a bit from those with personal fist hand knowledge (James) and all contributors. The perspective this has given me especially with the feedback from HarvradDad and James in the last few posts was a real reality check.

Yesterday I spoke to my girlfriend who lives in Santa Barbara right now whose best friends son plays on the UCSB basketball team. She was telling me how hard the players are working right now on conditioning and all areas of their game that need work. Of course UCSB is in a mid major league out the Big West.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLr-aKVixDg&a mp;fe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yND2EnzW6P4&a mp;fe...

I checked out the UCSB message board and found these links (above). UCSB have put themselves in position as the favorite to win the Big West next year. According to the info I get out of Santa Barbara many fans are excited about the prospects of winning a game or two in the NCAA Tournament next year. I believe UCSB has one 4* recruit (with several transfers) who will be a Sophomore next year. Joe P. in the vids talks a lot about off season development.

Reasonable minds will disagree but an argument could be made UCSB next year will be as good as Harvard (with their 2016 class of all Seniors). Using a metrics based system (KenPom) right up the alley of the one and only Mr. James... I am thinking of placing a wager with the GF that Harvard will finish with a better KP than UCSB next year. Knowing her she will make me spot her 9.5 spots in the rankings!!!!!!! errrrr

Not sure I would make that bet even though before this post I was thinking Harvard a sleeper Final 4! That is how off my thinking was on this upcoming season for Harvard. I learned quite a bit.

Edited by OnlyCrimsonBlood on 04-30-19 07:13 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5498

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-30-19 10:05 PM - Post#284039    
    In response to OnlyCrimsonBlood

I’ll change my mind on this when half the Harvard team gets saddled with injuries again, but in a fully healthy world, Harvard probably has slightly better odds of finishing 100 spots ahead of UCSB than finishing behind UCSB, so feel free to spot a healthy number of ranking spots...

 
OnlyCrimsonBlood 
Freshman
Posts: 18

Age: 53
Reg: 04-02-19
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
04-30-19 10:39 PM - Post#284042    
    In response to mrjames

Mr. James has spoken. That is a BOLD prediction based on facts and circumstances IMO. As it relates of course to the KP prognostication differential between UCSB/Harvard. That is what makes this board fun.

Thank you.



 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 21964

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
05-01-19 07:42 AM - Post#284047    
    In response to OnlyCrimsonBlood

What makes this board fun is the number of Harvard people who think that the "mr" in mrjames means "mister"

 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
Masters Student
Posts: 917

Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
05-01-19 08:46 AM - Post#284050    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
What makes this board fun is the number of Harvard people who think that the "mr" in mrjames means "mister"


THEY CALL ME MISTER JAMES.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5498

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard Basketball Culture/Expectations
05-01-19 09:26 AM - Post#284051    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

I mean, I've got three kids now, so it makes a little more sense than it did 15 years ago in these parts. But like most things I do on this board, there is indeed less obnoxiousness in my intent than how it ultimately reads...

 
digamma 
Senior
Posts: 313

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
05-01-19 12:02 PM - Post#284059    
    In response to mrjames

Three? Remember meeting you six years ago and you were expecting your first! You've been busy!

Harvard athletes used to be able to use a "meal plan" voucher at certain square restaurants (and this was almost always Pinnochio's).

 
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