AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-07-19 09:40 AM - Post#284245
In response to rbg
I can't comment on leaving Cornell out. Maybe they got that right. It's always a tough call; however, making Duke the #2 seed is a travesty and setting up a potential 3rd meeting between Penn and Yale is incredibly shortsighted.
Duke did beat us badly; however, the game was played on a miserable day down there on a field that was absolutely soaked. It was the one stinker that Penn lacrosse had. The other two losses were one goal losses, early in the season, to two tournament bound teams including #1 Penn State. I think whether we ended up two or four is not the point. It's the positioning that has us pitted against Yale if we both survive the opening round which was a boneheaded move.
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slane
Freshman
Posts: 67
Reg: 02-09-05
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05-07-19 02:17 PM - Post#284256
In response to AsiaSunset
I know beating the same team three times in a season is difficult but Harvard did it to us in hoops this year and Princeton did it to us in hoops 2 years ago (though admittedly the gap between us and Princeton was far greater back in 2017). Nonetheless can somebody explain why the fact that Penn and Yale have played twice already this year gives Yale the advantage as opposed to giving us the advantage. I watched the last 2 periods and the OT of the first Yale game on ESPN+ and was at Sunday’s game and then re-watched it on DVR and we are better. A second round game against Duke, Hopkins, Towson, UVA, or Loyola would not be any easier than trying to win against Yale for the third time. The only difference is that Duke and UVA each have materially easier opening round games as Army is far more dangerous than either Robert Morris or Richmond. However, if we can’t beat Army at home than none of this is worth talking about.
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slane
Freshman
Posts: 67
Reg: 02-09-05
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05-07-19 02:20 PM - Post#284257
In response to slane
If we had been the #3 and swapped draws with UVA we would be looking at a potential secon round game vs Maryland. Does anyone think that would be a more favorable match up for us than playing Yale? I don’t.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-07-19 03:06 PM - Post#284264
In response to slane
It's like flipping a coin three times and getting the same result each time. I think Penn and Yale are very evenly matched. Each team has an equal chance of winning each time they play. Yes, we were slightly better on Sunday, but we really weren't the better team at Franklin Field. We needed a buzzer beating screamer from Tyler Dunn from a difficult angle to send it into OT and then some incredible goaltending through the three OTs before Handley's game winner. On balance, Yale seemed like the slightly better team that day, but we managed to steal it.
I would feel more comfortable playing Maryland in a revenge rematch in the second round than playing Yale for a third time. Remember, we overcame a three goal deficit in the fourth quarter and had the final shot in regulation to beat Maryland, but their goalie made a great save to send it into OT. That was our season opener, but Maryland's third game. We are a much tighter and more confident team now, while Maryland was the last team to get into the NCAAs after an embarrassing loss to a relatively mediocre Hopkins team in the Big 10 tournament.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-07-19 03:22 PM - Post#284265
In response to LyleGold
It's like flipping a coin three times and getting the same result each time.
in your scenario though, you're only flipping it one more time. already got two heads.
the point is it's not a 12.5% chance Penn has of beating Yale. It's much much closer to 50ish percent.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-07-19 03:46 PM - Post#284267
In response to Jeff2sf
Right, I know about Bernouli trials and even said that each time we play Yale is a 50-50 situation. That's why I mostly replied to Stan's suggestion that Maryland would be a worse matchup than Yale. I'd rather play Maryland in the second round because we're better than them. I think Yale is equal to us, but I still feel uncomfortable facing them a third time. Maybe it's irrational, but it just feels like they'd get one of the three meetings and it hasn't happened yet.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-07-19 04:51 PM - Post#284274
In response to LyleGold
It’s actually not like flipping a coin 3 times.Each game presents unique challenges - weather, a change in approach, an analysis of how to better attack a zone or where the goalies tendencies dictate you should shoot.
On Sunday Kyle Gallagher handled TD Ierlan at the X. Ierlan had a 75% + success rate this year and was a 1st team AA. Can Gallagher win that battle again? Possibly - but it’s a heavy lift.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-08-19 08:25 AM - Post#284285
In response to AsiaSunset
Yeah, that's more the way I look at it also. People (and teams) make psychological adjustments. I think Yale has an edge knowing that Penn won twice despite not demonstrating superiority. Penn knows it can beat Yale having done it twice, but recognized that it is equally matched with them. There has to be a sense that all of Penn's hard work to get to this point could be erased with a single poor performance, which possibly makes them tighter. Penn was tight against Brown and seemed to press on offense, but managed to survive. They won't have that kind of margin in the tournament against Army, Yale. or anyone else.
By the way, Gallagher's statistical faceoff victory over TD was somewhat deceptive. He won a bunch of them, but Penn was unable to secure possession and go into its offense under Yale's withering pressure. Yale double teamed us and forced turnovers within seconds of our faceoff "wins" a bunch of times. I still think it's an anachronistic rule that needs to be changed. There's a reason basketball did away with the center jump.
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frank
Junior
Posts: 211
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-08-19 04:06 PM - Post#284310
In response to rbg
Quint Kessenich, 4-time All America goalie at Hopkins, is a long-time lacrosse journalist and TV commentator. He had this to say in his latest column:
"I absolutely hate this portion of the bracket; it’s reprehensible to have two league rivals who are national title contenders in the same quarter bracket."
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Cvonvorys
Postdoc
Posts: 4473
Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
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05-08-19 05:06 PM - Post#284313
In response to frank
Let us not forget the University of Pennsylvania Women's Lacrosse Team, who will be making their 13th-straight appearance in postseason play (the fifth-longest active streak in the country). They are set to play Georgetown in the opening round of action on Friday, May 10 in Syracuse, N.Y at 4 p.m..
https://pennathletics.com/news/2019/5/8/womens- lac...
I believe this game will be available on ESPN+.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-11-19 10:22 AM - Post#284394
In response to rbg
IT'S GAME DAY!!!
Our best chance to win a Div I national championship in a major sport in decades begins this evening at Franklin Field. The last time was at the 1988 Lacrosse Final Four when Syracuse's Gary Gait, playing at home, shocked the lacrosse world by inventing the Air Gait flying slamdunk on the way to an 11-10 semifinal victory en route to the title. The play would subsequently become outlawed until a modified reinstatement this year (you still can't dive towards the goal mouth). Penn football great Chris Flynn was stripped of the ball moments before. Gait repeated the maneuver again later in the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVofqa-qL10
Our previous shot at a major national title came in 1979 in basketball. We all remember how that turned out!
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8237
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-11-19 12:31 PM - Post#284397
In response to LyleGold
Lyle: your lax expertise is quite impressive. I'm still trying to re-arrange my day in order to get there.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-11-19 02:11 PM - Post#284399
In response to Streamers
I watched that game and videotaped it. The old vhs is still packed away in a box somewhere, along with a tape of Penn football beating Navy earlier that year featuring the same Chris Flynn. That remains our last I-A (now FBS) victory. I did go to Annapolis that day, but did not drive to Syracuse for the lacrosse game. However, I did haul P38 and a few others up to the Carrier Dome through four feet of snow for the UMass NCAA game in '93. Of course, he will deny that I ever went to that or any other game.
I'll look for you in the north stands. I believe Stan will be there as well.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8237
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-11-19 03:01 PM - Post#284400
In response to LyleGold
ah, get some sun while we are at it...
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8237
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-12-19 11:01 AM - Post#284408
In response to LyleGold
Here is the write-up of the Army game
I'm no Lax expert - still catching up with all the new rules with the help of some of the folks on this board I sat with - but even I could see that this team has some serious top-cycle talent. Enough to go all the way. On a beautiful day in front of a crowd that FF never sees these days save for the Relays and commencement, this team put away a very good and game Army squad (with a large cheering section) to advance to the final 8 for the 1st time in 31 years. The biggest factor was their dominance on face-offs which provided a great time of possession advantage. The one thing to be concerned about are some lapses in concentration like errant passes and defensive breakdowns of the sort that nearly cost them the Brown game.
Taking on the Yalies for the 3rd time this soon may be the result of silly seeding, but it will be fun. I'm really looking forward to an all-Pennsylvania semi-final at the Linc in two weeks.
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slane
Freshman
Posts: 67
Reg: 02-09-05
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05-12-19 12:25 PM - Post#284409
In response to Streamers
Official box score lists attendance at 2218
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-12-19 12:33 PM - Post#284410
In response to Streamers
Yes, it was definitely a fun way to spend a beautiful Saturday late afternoon, but I left Franklin Field less than confident about Yale game #3. When Penn plays its best, its offense flows smoothly and exploits crisp inside passing to get quick shots in traffic. We were out of sync all game long in that area, which resulted in so many turnovers that much of our faceoff advantage was wasted. I agree with Streamers that it resembled the Brown game in that sense. After the Quakers jumped out to a 5-0 start, the final three quarters of the game were even. If you discount the empty netter in desperation time, you could even argue that Army won the last 45 minutes.
I watched enough of the Yale-Georgetown game before leaving for Franklin Field to get the sense that they were as sharp offensively as we were flat. (It was 12-6 at the time.) I was surprised to learn that Georgetown cut the final margin to 19-16 (an NCAA tournament scoring record), so maybe Yale's defense is more vulnerable than I realize. The best we can expect is to be roughly equal at faceoffs against TD Ierlan, which is about where we stand after the first two matchups, but we often struggle to consolidate possession after beating him. My gut feeling is that defending national champion Yale is a slight favorite in next Sunday's quarterfinal in Connecticut. I would prefer our chances in a semifinal at the Linc, but the Brown AD made sure that wouldn't happen.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-12-19 12:38 PM - Post#284412
In response to slane
Official box score lists attendance at 2218
Just about everyone was in the lower deck of the north stands, so that area felt like a reasonable crowd. Obviously that's a tiny fraction of Franklin Field, but it was a great atmosphere with Army's very vocal cheering section drowning out the Penn students who were mostly there to sunbathe and hang out. The alums and players' friends and families did the bulk of the work for the home side.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-13-19 08:23 AM - Post#284427
In response to LyleGold
Is the Yale going to be available on the Internet? I've only been to one lacrosse game in my life. But I enjoyed it a lot.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3052
Reg: 10-20-14
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05-13-19 09:33 AM - Post#284435
In response to 10Q
https://www.ncaa.com/news/lacrosse-men/art icle/201...
The game is Sunday at 2:30 pm on ESPNU from East Hartford. If you have ESPN+, you will be able to see it on your computer or the new app. It think, even if you just have ESPN on your local cable provider, you will be able to get it on the internet or the previous ESPN app.
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