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Username Post: Jon Rothstein has us as his preseason #23 team        (Topic#23105)
mobrien 
Sophomore
Posts: 147

Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
05-30-19 10:08 AM - Post#284882    

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1 133936687...

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 689

Age: 47
Reg: 05-19-16
Re: Jon Rothstein has us as his preseason #23 team
05-30-19 08:49 PM - Post#284899    
    In response to mobrien

That's impressive! When was the last time an Ivy League school ranked this high preseason?
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3482

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
05-30-19 09:23 PM - Post#284904    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Meaningless. Play the games. Get it done on the court.

 
whitakk 
Junior
Posts: 277

Age: 28
Reg: 11-11-14
Re: Jon Rothstein has us as his preseason #23 team
05-30-19 11:32 PM - Post#284908    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Harvard was #25 in the preseason AP poll in 2014-15 (which was absurd even at the time, and they went on to need Gabas Maldunas' miracle to share the league title)

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 21982

Reg: 11-21-04
05-31-19 06:58 AM - Post#284909    
    In response to Silver Maple

Of course it is meaningless, but don't say that we wouldn't have posts on the same thing if Penn were predicted by anyone to be in the top 25.

 
Naismith 
Freshman
Posts: 49

Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
05-31-19 10:23 AM - Post#284911    
    In response to palestra38

The "Harvard Brand" worth 10 spots in rankings like these.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 21982

Reg: 11-21-04
05-31-19 10:30 AM - Post#284912    
    In response to Naismith

"The Harvard Brand, as interpreted by Tommy Amaker", anyway.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3827

Reg: 02-04-06
06-02-19 05:53 PM - Post#284927    
    In response to palestra38

It’s optimistic but not insane.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1171

Age: 70
Reg: 01-15-16
06-03-19 11:33 AM - Post#284938    
    In response to SRP

  • SRP Said:
It’s optimistic but not insane.



I agree with your opinion but with the caveat that Crimson will have their key players for the entire season versus being on IR. Even if everyone is healthy, it will definitely be a challenge to be a top 25 team with 14 games played in the IL.

It would create enormous publicity for IL BB. I always thought that a top 50 or better yet top 25 ranking would do far more for IL BB publicity than the PR out of IvyMadness. Additionally, even if Harvard is not a top 25 or 50 team but does "damage" at the Big Dance, the publicity would be significant for the league.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1638

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
06-03-19 02:46 PM - Post#284941    
    In response to bradley

The only national impression will be from the big dance. Big OOC wins from 2018-19 have already been forgotten. Failure to advance in March Madness wipes it all out. Failure to win our March folly negates any perceived success.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3827

Reg: 02-04-06
06-03-19 06:36 PM - Post#284943    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

To be frank, even Harvard and Yale's fairly recent wins in the NCAA tournament don't seem to have moved the needle very much in terms of league perception beyond the "insider" types like Rothstein, and even there I always sense a level of built-in skepticism.

Recruiting high-ranked players ups the background expectation more than recent performance. That gives Harvard a bit of a leg up lately.

 
mobrien 
Sophomore
Posts: 147

Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
06-03-19 11:48 PM - Post#284947    
    In response to SRP

Jeff Goodman has us as his #24 team as well.

https://watchstadium.com/news/college-basketba ll-p...

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5499

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
06-04-19 06:44 PM - Post#284962    
    In response to mobrien

Bart has Harvard at No. 23 now as well. It’s not crazy, and Harvard may indeed play like a No. 23 team for stretches next season.

From a full-season perspective, though, there are enough watchouts to give me pause. All the key players would need to be healthy for a full season, which Harvard has yet to accomplish since this group was freshmen. They’d need to be healthy for long enough before the season to hit the ground running together. Tommy would need to avoid tinkering with lineups and not playing his best lineups to “win” games early on. And Harvard still needs to find a rotation of bigs behind Lewis that it can feel confident in consistently.

At the same time, this team is far more talented than the other Harvard teams that spent time in the Top 25, so it’s not crazy. But, man, this has been such a snakebit class that it’s hard to put a ton of stock in what seems like a pretty “best case” projection.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1171

Age: 70
Reg: 01-15-16
06-04-19 06:57 PM - Post#284964    
    In response to SRP

True but a season like Cornell in 2010 with two 15+ point wins at the NCAA Tournament with a top 25 team would get considerable notoriety especially being an Ivy League school.

IvyMadness would be irrelevant.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 2329

Reg: 02-15-15
06-04-19 07:20 PM - Post#284965    
    In response to bradley

Every prognosticator is going to put an Ivy League team in their top 25 if it's even close. These aren’t merit based rankings and when you basically never have an Ivy that’s top 25 it’s a sexy pick to include if they are anywhere in the top 50, which Harvard clearly is on paper at this point.

 
james 
Freshman
Posts: 71

Age: 44
Reg: 03-18-19
06-04-19 11:14 PM - Post#284969    
    In response to PennFan10

Harvard is loaded. The health issues are a variable for anyone obviously. But their depth + led Ledlum is scary. on paper this is the most talent I have seen in the IL since Princeton ‘98 and possibly penn ‘95.
Perhaps Yale + Bruner and Mason in 2018 which was only on paper and didn’t pan out.
The key difference is the harvArd depth. mason was a better true pg but Harvard has deeper talent base. If they get solid all around pg play and not hero ball the talent justifies it.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1171

Age: 70
Reg: 01-15-16
06-06-19 05:06 PM - Post#285013    
    In response to james

I agree that Harvard is indeed loaded if everyone is reasonably healthy. The one question may be the C position. Although Lewis is good, he gets into foul trouble way to easy and there really is not a good back up. Lewis for such a heavily recruited player has kind of been treading water. His career is somewhat disappointing, similar to Edosmwan but he has one more opportunity. Amaker may only need him to play stellar defense.

When Harvard goes against big Power 5 teams, they will need Lewis to perform. Could be an Achilles Heel to reach full potential for the Crimson.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1638

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
06-06-19 05:57 PM - Post#285014    
    In response to bradley

He was awesome against NC State, but you are right. Neither Zena or Chris have a versatile game on offense. It’s get to the rim or bust and neither handle the double team well.

 
mobrien 
Sophomore
Posts: 147

Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
06-06-19 05:58 PM - Post#285015    
    In response to bradley

Agree about Lewis, but I think a big part of it was that he was playing through injury a lot of last year. Tommy started resting him a lot in the second halves of games to keep him fresh for the final five minutes or so (which actually worked pretty well).

He looked healthier in the NIT games, though, and more than held his own against high-major bigs. The same was true when we played UNC. He blocked Luke Maye one-on-one three or four times.


 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3827

Reg: 02-04-06
06-06-19 07:19 PM - Post#285018    
    In response to mobrien

This group is loaded with rangy, athletic guys who can play physical basketball. Only two guys have what you'd call scoring finesse, and both of them will have to deliver to be that good. Lewis could help if he'd develop a better post game and stay out of foul trouble, but anyone else on the squad becoming that third scoring option would serve as well.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5499

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
06-07-19 03:42 PM - Post#285026    
    In response to SRP

I mean, if we assume 100% health, the top 9 is going to be:

Aiken
Bassey
Kirkwood
Towns
Lewis

Juzang
Ledlum
(two of) Djuricic/Baker/Forbes/Wel sh

That’s pretty insane. It’s also super optimistic (both to believe in full health and to believe Tommy can refrain from playing 12+ people in Nov/Dec).

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1638

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
06-07-19 04:54 PM - Post#285027    
    In response to mrjames

And the best shooters from the new 3 pt line could be Haskett, Friedman and Sakota.

Catchings wasn’t bad either.

Depth.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 2329

Reg: 02-15-15
06-07-19 05:15 PM - Post#285028    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

The idea that Djuricic is at the end of the rotation and Catchings is on the outside looking in is ridiculous. I have Harvard in my top 15!

Its not at all optimistic to think 7 of those guys are going to be healthy and if they aren't, there are still some guys not on that list who can step in. There is legitimacy to H's off season hype.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1638

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
06-07-19 06:43 PM - Post#285030    
    In response to PennFan10

As Lewis plays limited minutes and Towns needs a rest or foul trouble, Djuricic will see minutes. Need his offense if you use Forbes, Baker or Welsh.

By the way, could be that both Penn and Harvard have over 100% of offense returning.

 
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