mobrien
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
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05-30-19 10:08 AM - Post#284882
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1 133936687...
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GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
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Re: Jon Rothstein has us as his preseason #23 team 05-30-19 08:49 PM - Post#284899
In response to mobrien
That's impressive! When was the last time an Ivy League school ranked this high preseason?
"...no excuses - only results!†|
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3781
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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05-30-19 09:23 PM - Post#284904
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
Meaningless. Play the games. Get it done on the court.
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whitakk
Masters Student
Posts: 523
Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
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Re: Jon Rothstein has us as his preseason #23 team 05-30-19 11:32 PM - Post#284908
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
Harvard was #25 in the preseason AP poll in 2014-15 (which was absurd even at the time, and they went on to need Gabas Maldunas' miracle to share the league title)
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32871
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-31-19 06:58 AM - Post#284909
In response to Silver Maple
Of course it is meaningless, but don't say that we wouldn't have posts on the same thing if Penn were predicted by anyone to be in the top 25.
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 150
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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05-31-19 10:23 AM - Post#284911
In response to palestra38
The "Harvard Brand" worth 10 spots in rankings like these.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32871
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-31-19 10:30 AM - Post#284912
In response to Naismith
"The Harvard Brand, as interpreted by Tommy Amaker", anyway.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4919
Reg: 02-04-06
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06-02-19 05:53 PM - Post#284927
In response to palestra38
It’s optimistic but not insane.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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06-03-19 11:33 AM - Post#284938
In response to SRP
It’s optimistic but not insane.
I agree with your opinion but with the caveat that Crimson will have their key players for the entire season versus being on IR. Even if everyone is healthy, it will definitely be a challenge to be a top 25 team with 14 games played in the IL.
It would create enormous publicity for IL BB. I always thought that a top 50 or better yet top 25 ranking would do far more for IL BB publicity than the PR out of IvyMadness. Additionally, even if Harvard is not a top 25 or 50 team but does "damage" at the Big Dance, the publicity would be significant for the league.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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06-03-19 02:46 PM - Post#284941
In response to bradley
The only national impression will be from the big dance. Big OOC wins from 2018-19 have already been forgotten. Failure to advance in March Madness wipes it all out. Failure to win our March folly negates any perceived success.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4919
Reg: 02-04-06
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06-03-19 06:36 PM - Post#284943
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
To be frank, even Harvard and Yale's fairly recent wins in the NCAA tournament don't seem to have moved the needle very much in terms of league perception beyond the "insider" types like Rothstein, and even there I always sense a level of built-in skepticism.
Recruiting high-ranked players ups the background expectation more than recent performance. That gives Harvard a bit of a leg up lately.
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mobrien
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
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06-03-19 11:48 PM - Post#284947
In response to SRP
Jeff Goodman has us as his #24 team as well.
https://watchstadium.com/news/college-basketba ll-p...
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-04-19 06:44 PM - Post#284962
In response to mobrien
Bart has Harvard at No. 23 now as well. It’s not crazy, and Harvard may indeed play like a No. 23 team for stretches next season.
From a full-season perspective, though, there are enough watchouts to give me pause. All the key players would need to be healthy for a full season, which Harvard has yet to accomplish since this group was freshmen. They’d need to be healthy for long enough before the season to hit the ground running together. Tommy would need to avoid tinkering with lineups and not playing his best lineups to “win†games early on. And Harvard still needs to find a rotation of bigs behind Lewis that it can feel confident in consistently.
At the same time, this team is far more talented than the other Harvard teams that spent time in the Top 25, so it’s not crazy. But, man, this has been such a snakebit class that it’s hard to put a ton of stock in what seems like a pretty “best case†projection.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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06-04-19 06:57 PM - Post#284964
In response to SRP
True but a season like Cornell in 2010 with two 15+ point wins at the NCAA Tournament with a top 25 team would get considerable notoriety especially being an Ivy League school.
IvyMadness would be irrelevant.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3589
Reg: 02-15-15
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06-04-19 07:20 PM - Post#284965
In response to bradley
Every prognosticator is going to put an Ivy League team in their top 25 if it's even close. These aren’t merit based rankings and when you basically never have an Ivy that’s top 25 it’s a sexy pick to include if they are anywhere in the top 50, which Harvard clearly is on paper at this point.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 801
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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06-04-19 11:14 PM - Post#284969
In response to PennFan10
Harvard is loaded. The health issues are a variable for anyone obviously. But their depth + led Ledlum is scary. on paper this is the most talent I have seen in the IL since Princeton ‘98 and possibly penn ‘95.
Perhaps Yale + Bruner and Mason in 2018 which was only on paper and didn’t pan out.
The key difference is the harvArd depth. mason was a better true pg but Harvard has deeper talent base. If they get solid all around pg play and not hero ball the talent justifies it.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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06-06-19 05:06 PM - Post#285013
In response to james
I agree that Harvard is indeed loaded if everyone is reasonably healthy. The one question may be the C position. Although Lewis is good, he gets into foul trouble way to easy and there really is not a good back up. Lewis for such a heavily recruited player has kind of been treading water. His career is somewhat disappointing, similar to Edosmwan but he has one more opportunity. Amaker may only need him to play stellar defense.
When Harvard goes against big Power 5 teams, they will need Lewis to perform. Could be an Achilles Heel to reach full potential for the Crimson.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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06-06-19 05:57 PM - Post#285014
In response to bradley
He was awesome against NC State, but you are right. Neither Zena or Chris have a versatile game on offense. It’s get to the rim or bust and neither handle the double team well.
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mobrien
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
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06-06-19 05:58 PM - Post#285015
In response to bradley
Agree about Lewis, but I think a big part of it was that he was playing through injury a lot of last year. Tommy started resting him a lot in the second halves of games to keep him fresh for the final five minutes or so (which actually worked pretty well).
He looked healthier in the NIT games, though, and more than held his own against high-major bigs. The same was true when we played UNC. He blocked Luke Maye one-on-one three or four times.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4919
Reg: 02-04-06
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06-06-19 07:19 PM - Post#285018
In response to mobrien
This group is loaded with rangy, athletic guys who can play physical basketball. Only two guys have what you'd call scoring finesse, and both of them will have to deliver to be that good. Lewis could help if he'd develop a better post game and stay out of foul trouble, but anyone else on the squad becoming that third scoring option would serve as well.
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