QHoops
Senior
Posts: 369
Reg: 12-16-04
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07-11-19 08:42 PM - Post#285774
In the Inky article - there was this nugget:
"Betley is eligible for a fifth season, but only as a graduate transfer."
That already seemed like the most likely outcome, but this suggests that this year is definitively his last as a Quaker.
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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07-12-19 06:56 AM - Post#285784
In response to QHoops
why only as a graduate transfer?
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DCAJedi
Masters Student
Posts: 582
Age: 40
Loc: Somewhere.
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-12-19 08:51 AM - Post#285786
In response to Charlie Fog
I believe it's a league rule. Steve was pretty definitive about it when he told me.
| "Here will be an old abusing of God's patience, and the king's English." |
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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07-12-19 08:51 AM - Post#285787
In response to Charlie Fog
To be eligible for a 5th year you either need to have withdrawn from the school for the academic year or be in an academic program requiring 5 years to graduate.
I guess Betley doesn't qualify for either - or has decided he wants the grad transfer and didn't want to qualify for either.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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Betley
07-12-19 08:55 AM - Post#285788
In response to TheLine
It's possible that he and his family didn't want to pay for a fifth year of Ivy League education. They might also be interested in getting one free year of graduate school.
I wish Ivies would allow one year of grad school for players who still have eligibility remaining. Anybody know the rationale for not permitting this? Knowing the Ivy League, I'm sure the reason is extremely well-thought-out.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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07-12-19 08:56 AM - Post#285789
In response to TheLine
To be eligible for a 5th year you either need to have withdrawn from the school for the academic year or be in an academic program requiring 5 years to graduate.
I guess Betley doesn't qualify for either - or has decided he wants the grad transfer and didn't want to qualify for either.
If he takes his fifth year at Villanova, I'm going to write him a strongly worded letter.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4360
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Betley
07-12-19 10:52 AM - Post#285794
In response to Silver Maple
In the 10th semester you only need to take one course.
There are many possibilities, including financial considerations, but the academic part is not hard to juggle to permit a 5th year. And - there is a possibility the article made an assumption that is not correct.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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07-12-19 11:04 AM - Post#285797
In response to AsiaSunset
It isn't hard to juggle at Penn if you want to.
It is also easy to decide to not juggle. It's nice to get a degree in 4 years and then get a year of graduate level education while on an athletic scholarship.
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DCAJedi
Masters Student
Posts: 582
Age: 40
Loc: Somewhere.
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Betley
07-12-19 12:41 PM - Post#285802
In response to AsiaSunset
In the 10th semester you only need to take one course.
There are many possibilities, including financial considerations, but the academic part is not hard to juggle to permit a 5th year. And - there is a possibility the article made an assumption that is not correct.
It is certainly possible, but what I wrote was what Steve told me directly. If it turns out to be wrong there will be ample opportunities to report that.
| "Here will be an old abusing of God's patience, and the king's English." |
Edited by DCAJedi on 07-12-19 12:42 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-12-19 01:11 PM - Post#285807
In response to DCAJedi
Thanks for the article and update Jon!
Still such a shame about JW... to have to do that rehab 3X sounds maddening, but clearly sounds very motivated. Hope he can get back if even just to prove to himself he can.
Yeah, it’s definitely possible for Betley to find a way to stay 5th year and I was hoping he would be the one to break the mold and do it, but taking what Coach Donahue said, that probably just means Betley is not planning to set up his coursework to take the 5th year at Penn path.
Can’t fault him when his options would basically be paying for the privilege to do more class work that he doesn’t really need OR get paid to play at a higher level (his skills will be in high demand) and chance to do advanced class work.
If Ivy’s got rid of dumb and archaic rule that the kids can’t do graduate work, maybe you could make some kind of argument, but otherwise don’t see it.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Betley
07-12-19 01:12 PM - Post#285808
In response to DCAJedi
P.S. If you get a chance to talk to Coach Donahue again, would sure be good to get an update on Mike Wang’s health since he seemed to have real issues playing for China this summer...
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8236
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Betley
07-12-19 01:52 PM - Post#285810
In response to Mike Porter
Mike beat me to the question about Wang.
As for Betley, I actually see this as a potential win-win. Sure, another year from Ryan sounds great; but I really doubt that's his best option. The program has several wings coming in that could, either alone or in some combination, fill Ryan's shoes. This will free up minutes for them.
I'm much more concerned about this coming season, which should have been a top-cycle team, losing their PG and not having Wang at full strength.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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Re: Betley
07-12-19 07:18 PM - Post#285825
In response to Streamers
I'm much more concerned about this coming season, which should have been a top-cycle team, losing their PG and not having Wang at full strength.
Not sure how accurate it is to say “...losing their PG†when its someone who never played for us.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Betley
07-12-19 08:48 PM - Post#285828
In response to PennFan10
Yeah, I'm really bummed about JW for sure, but not sure I agree with him as our PG either. Honestly, after second ACL, I came from perspective of anything he could give us would be great, but not counting on it.
I had envisioned Dev being starting in that position based on him stepping up big time last year on both ends of the court (and hopefully coming back even better for senior year). He ended up playing most minutes of anyone on the team last season.
I will say, it was great to hear the early high praise for Jordan Dingle though and hopefully a good sign of things to come.
My biggest health concerns are in order:
1) Betley - can he truly get back to 100% this year?
2) Wang - what is going on with his health? We know he got shut down end of last year and his summer time with Team China only adds to concerns on his health. The difference between healthy Mike Wang and unhealthy Mike Wang was the different between winning the Big 5 and barely making the Ivy tournament...
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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07-12-19 10:08 PM - Post#285831
In response to Mike Porter
I'm a little mystified that Goodman is not being called our PG. I think he's more of a PG than SG. He probably is our only guard with enough handles under pressure right now. If Dingle is ready, that would be fantastic. I don't see a Dingle / Goodman backcourt as being a dominant one in the league, but we've somehow managed the last two years with an unconventional backcourt that doesn't shoot the well, but shoots a lot of threes anyway.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8236
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-12-19 10:24 PM - Post#285834
In response to Penndemonium
This is from DCAJedi (Jon's) recent article in the Inky:
The injury will have a big impact on Penn’s point guard depth chart. Williams was in line to be the starter this season after the graduations of Antonio Woods and Jake Silpe. Donahue said the job may now go to incoming freshman Jordan Dingle, a northern New Jersey native from Blair Academy.
It is consistent with just about everything I have read and heard on the subject. Goodman can play PG but playing with Woods made them interchangeable 1-2 guards. Although he has improved as a distributor, it is not his strength and takes away from his ability to score inside and out. Think back to how effective he was as a 2 when playing with Darnell and Jake.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Betley
07-12-19 10:33 PM - Post#285835
In response to Streamers
Totally get your point on that from traditional PG perspective and agree that’s not what Goodman. Honestly Woods was not one either and didn’t create that much for others, but Donahue’s system doesn’t require it to work.
I should clarify my point in that I envisioned (and still envision) Goodman starting in the 1 spot with Washington and Betley filling out 2 and 3 spots. There is a lot to like with that 3 starting in both a shooting and defense perspective.
Further into the article Donahue also covers this from system perspective:
“I have great confidence in the kid,†Donahue said. “I also think we’ve got a lot of experience around him, and we don’t rely on a typical system where the point guard runs the show and gets 200 assists. Our leading assist guy last year was [big man] AJ Brodeur. ... Everybody passes. dribbles and shoots, and I think Jordan can really do a good job in that system.â€
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-12-19 10:36 PM - Post#285836
In response to Mike Porter
For the record, I would much rather have JW than not and do think we’d be better with him healthy. I guess I’m just not as worried about traditional PG. Let’s see if I feel that way later this year, haha!
I do have high hopes for Dingle though so if he can bring a Washington-like frosh campaign but from a PG perspective do think we will be better for it.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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07-13-19 12:43 AM - Post#285838
In response to Streamers
Whoa. I disagree with a few points. Between Woods and Goodman, I always considered Goodman the PG. I accept that Donahue's system is a bit position less, but Goodman was our ball handler and would initiate our offense when he was out there.
I also thought Goodman was very strong at the end of the season (not the beginning), and better than he was with Darnell and Jake.
This is from DCAJedi (Jon's) recent article in the Inky:
It is consistent with just about everything I have read and heard on the subject. Goodman can play PG but playing with Woods made them interchangeable 1-2 guards. Although he has improved as a distributor, it is not his strength and takes away from his ability to score inside and out. Think back to how effective he was as a 2 when playing with Darnell and Jake.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8236
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-13-19 08:02 AM - Post#285839
In response to Penndemonium
We have seen Steve’s offense with a traditional 1-2 setup with Jake out there and without it the rest of the time. What matters most at that end is who brings up the ball when protecting a lead at the end of a game, and I’m pretty sure Goodman will be doing that based on what we know now. Where position matters a lot more is on the defensive end when managing matchups. Here, Dev is the man when it is time to cover the really quick PGs they see. If DIngle contributes, all the netter but look for Bryce to cover the bigger guards as long as he is shooting well. I’m not expecting Ryan to spend much time as a 2.
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