Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2163
Reg: 02-14-06
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08-26-19 09:45 PM - Post#287230
In response to palestra38
My expectation is that senior transfer Smoyer will make an immediate favorable impact on Columbia Basketball. We finally have some depth up front with Tape, Iweke, Brumant, Smoyer and the three freshman bigs. I'm excited by our prospects for a highly successful season.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-01-19 01:00 PM - Post#287334
In response to cc66
Yes, my unhelpful point on this is that either camp could be right. Plenty of guys are capable of having a run. There are slices of Chris Lewis’ career where he looked better than Tape’s late season run. At a different position, Nate Hickman is a guy who played like a lead guard for a while, but lacked the consistency and ability to adjust necessary to do it over the long haul. But other guys flip the switch at some point and it just stays on. We’ll find out which one Tape is.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3578
Reg: 02-15-15
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09-01-19 09:51 PM - Post#287346
In response to SomeGuy
Tape was not consistent over a full Ivy round robin. He played well down the stretch. He will have to prove it every game if he wants to be considered in the top tier. He can’t go 18-12 3 games and then foul out with 6 pts and 2 reb followed by 18-12 again.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2958
Reg: 03-02-08
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09-02-19 07:48 AM - Post#287349
In response to PennFan10
Tape was foul prone until the second half of the Ivy season. Then he seemed to put it all together. What makes him so tantalizing is that he is 6’10†but unlike most big men moves like he is a SF. He is unusually athletic for a man is size and can run the court. So if he continues his upward trend he can be a very, very good player. To me, the other issue for him is being more consistent in finishing around the rim. PS on Brodeur; I had thought that Wang was playing the traditional 5 and Brodeur was playing the 4.
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-02-19 11:21 AM - Post#287360
In response to Chet Forte
Just to stir the pot on this discussion . . .
The individual efficiency statistics which I post each year have Patrick Tape ranked 4th in the league in conference-only games.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3614
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-02-19 02:15 PM - Post#287369
In response to Stuart Suss
Stu - interesting that all of Top 5 players are bigs
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-02-19 02:39 PM - Post#287370
In response to Mike Porter
Mike, box score metrics place a high value on rebounds. So, rebounders (usually bigs) tend to rank higher than perimeter players. To be fair, players should be compared against others at their same position.
Box score metrics can only weigh factors for which a box score number exists. A player can do many good things on a basketball court for which no box score number exists. On the ball defense is merely one such example.
A deep, well-balanced team will share the wealth (points and rebounds). So co-champion Harvard had nobody ranked in the top 15, but 5 of the next 11 and 8 of the next 23.
These numbers don't prove that Patrick Tape was the 4th best player in league regular season games last year. They do refute the suggestion that he is undervalued.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-02-19 10:50 PM - Post#287384
In response to Chet Forte
Not sure what you saw with Wang that seemed 5 like. He’s more of a perimeter player than Brodeur. He’s also not as good an interior defender, although AJ generally would draw the tougher assignment between the two, whether that was the 5 or the 4.
I know you are super high on Tape. While he is athletic for his size, most Ivies have a guy of like size and athleticism (including Wang for Penn, who is athletic enough that he isn’t even a center).
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3578
Reg: 02-15-15
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09-03-19 12:29 PM - Post#287389
In response to SomeGuy
Max was the 5 and AJ the 4 last year when those two played. Max guarded Tape when he was in the game (21 and 27 min) against Columbia. AJ guarded him most other times. AJ played the 5 when he was the only big on the floor, otherwise he was a 4 (which I define for defensive purposes).
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3578
Reg: 02-15-15
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09-03-19 12:41 PM - Post#287391
In response to Stuart Suss
Just to stir the pot on this discussion . . .
The individual efficiency statistics which I post each year have Patrick Tape ranked 4th in the league in conference-only games.
Stu, maybe you should run this analysis for just the last 6 games of the Ivy slate as it seems that's all that matters for the purposes of this discussion.
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-03-19 04:17 PM - Post#287400
In response to PennFan10
"Chet Forte" is invited to give me all of Patrick's numbers from the final 6 Ivy games. I will plug them into the spreadsheet and see if the results are significantly different from the full Ivy season numbers.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-03-19 04:50 PM - Post#287401
In response to Stuart Suss
If you go to Bart's site, you can filter down for any span of games and see metrics like Box +/-, Points Per Game Above Replacement (at that usage rate), etc.
http://www.barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&am...
Patrick Tape did have a very strong end to the season - certainly if you look at just those six games, but also if you look at the last couple months. While I have my own thoughts on what "predictive" means in this context, what's more important here is that the quality of the bigs in this league is extremely high. Between Brodeur, Aririguzoh, Bruner, Atkinson, Lewis, Knight and Tape, that's seven bigs where the seventh on that list is still really, really good.
I think if I had to take two from that list, I'd probably take Brodeur and Knight, but I'd be happy with any combination of the seven.
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