Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-10-19 09:07 PM - Post#290544
In response to PennFan10
Pass, shoot, make. And yes. That and many others.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1122
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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11-10-19 09:17 PM - Post#290546
In response to PennFan10
Unless you think that Donahue or Silpe, the emergence of Dingle as a scorer tells us that Penn has better offensive talent this year. The two early games also tell us that we were right to worry about the defense, especially Antonio. Same for concern about rebounding with the loss of Antonio and Max. Let's hope as the Frosh gain experience the team D and rebounding will get better. In the meantime those weaknesses mean losses when the 3's aren't falling.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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11-10-19 09:40 PM - Post#290550
In response to Buckeye Quake
Pass, shoot, make. And yes. That and many others.
Genius.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6418
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-11-19 12:01 AM - Post#290552
In response to Penndemonium
Two observations. I think the biggest difference between the two games was just that the ball went in against Alabama and it did not against Rice. Those 19 missed 3s were all open shots.
One other note (hopefully not giving away state secrets here). There is a progression to how we play offense, and I think Rice was ready for the progression. They couldn’t stop AJ when we were in the post up phase, but they appeared more than ready for the high post phase. That’s when the game fell apart for us. Alabama, by contrast, seemed to fall for everything. The high post drew the defender out to AJ, and left the middle open for back doors, etc. The simple answer is to mix up the looks a little more.
On the cold shooters early (Goodman, Betley, Washington), I have no concern about Goodman, and I have no concern about Betley by the Ivy season. I think the issue with Washington is figuring out how he fits with Betley on the floor. It seems like he is kind of in the way quite a bit.
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Penn7277
PhD Student
Posts: 1365
Loc: Lancaster, PA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-11-19 12:21 AM - Post#290554
In response to SomeGuy
Given your comment. Maybe it was that Scott Pera knew pretty well what Donahue's game plan was going to be, and he knew how to respond. Maybe that ha something to do with it.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1905
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-11-19 12:27 AM - Post#290555
In response to Penn7277
Can you remind me - was Pera assistant to Donahue, Allen, or both?
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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11-11-19 01:02 AM - Post#290556
In response to Penndemonium
Pera was an assistant under Jerome. When he left to go to Rice as an assistant, Nat Graham was hired by Jerome as Donahue had just been fired by BC and Nat was available. The next year Jerome got fired and SD kept Nat on staff.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2144
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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11-11-19 07:07 AM - Post#290564
In response to Penn7277
Given your comment. Maybe it was that Scott Pera knew pretty well what Donahue's game plan was going to be, and he knew how to respond. Maybe that ha something to do with it.
That makes sense, given that we routed them in Philly last year.
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Penn7277
PhD Student
Posts: 1365
Loc: Lancaster, PA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-11-19 10:23 AM - Post#290575
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Sorry for getting my timing wrong on the Pera thing. OOps!
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8347
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-11-19 10:29 AM - Post#290577
In response to Penn7277
Here is an excerpt from the Athletic mid major feature today
The Quakers pulled off something in Tuesday’s season opener that had never happened in the program’s 122-year history: They won on an SEC opponent’s home floor, with an 81-80 upset at Alabama. That triggered a rowdy locker room celebration, followed by a brisk reminder of their station. The bus waiting to whisk the team away had broken down, forcing the Penn contingent to sit on Tuscaloosa sidewalks for about two hours. The Quakers finally got to their hotel a little before 1 a.m., then woke up five hours later for another bus ride to Birmingham before they could fly home commercial and get back to class that day.
“That’s the mid-majors, right?†Penn coach Steve Donahue says with a laugh.
The travel headache was at least easier to absorb thanks to the big win over a power-conference school. But the good feelings didn’t endure. Two days after returning home to Philadelphia, the Quakers went right back on the road in preparation for Saturday’s game at Rice. They lost, 80-61.
Did all that travel play a part in the loss? It’s impossible to say for sure, but Donahue’s normally solid shooting club went just 2-of-16 on 3s against the Owls, a potential sign of tired legs. Would things have been different if Penn flew on comfy charter planes? We’ll never know.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32910
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-11-19 10:42 AM - Post#290579
In response to Streamers
Maybe some of that Carey family money should have gone to the basketball program rather than the Law School. Change the name of the Palestra to the Carey and they can then travel charter.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3068
Reg: 10-20-14
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11-11-19 12:26 PM - Post#290584
In response to palestra38
I talked to several Law School alums this weekend who were not happy with the name change.
It looks like a number of grads took to signing a petition regarding this change.
https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/11/penn- carey-l...
https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/11/penn- law-wp-...
The newly renamed University of Pennsylvania Carey Law School (Carey Law) now joins a family of other Carey-named schools: University of Maryland Francis King Carey School of Law (Maryland Carey Law), Arizona State University W. P. Carey School of Business, and The Johns Hopkins University Carey Business School.
In the last year, the school has named the basketball court for the Macquarie Corporation, the School of Design for Stuart Weitzman and the Law School for the Carey Foundation.
For a school that has the Wharton School, the Annenberg School of Communication and the Perelman School of Medicine, should it have come as such a surprise that other schools are up for renaming/rebranding?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32910
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-11-19 12:57 PM - Post#290588
In response to rbg
It's the reason Amy Gutman is still President---she is an unparalleled fundraiser. Alums may not like it, but the Trustees love it.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23565
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-11-19 01:32 PM - Post#290595
In response to palestra38
Why would anyone dump $125 million into a law school, even my law school? What a waste of money.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23565
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-11-19 01:33 PM - Post#290596
In response to 10Q
My first reaction upon hearing that my alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania Law School, had renamed itself the “Carey†School of Law at the University of Pennsylvania, was incredulity. Of the top 14 law schools, we now will be the only one that felt the need to brand itself in return for money.
My second reaction was to laugh and look at my Certificate of Admission to the Supreme Court of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. On my plaque it reads that I was moved to the Bar by Francis J. Carey, whose family name now will be my alma mater. In fact, the majority of the work that I did as a real estate lawyer my first three years was for Frank’s younger brother William P. Carey, who took that family fortune to the stratosphere. Therefore, I probably am one of the few Penn Law graduates who interacted nearly every day with the people for whom our school will be named.
I also am the Reunion Chair for my Law School Class, the Class of 1983. In that capacity I sent around to the class a picture of the new crest for the “Carey†Law School and asked for reactions. They weren’t long in forthcoming.
Overwhelmingly the responses were negative. Some were short and terse, some much longer and analytical. Before I discuss those, however, some personal observations about the Careys.
Descendants of numerous American historical figures including President James K. Polk, the Carey’s were and are WASP royalty. Sometimes this manifest itself in hysterical ways. When our law firm, Reed Smith Townsend and Munson (now Reed Smith Shaw & McClay) held retreats with W. P. Carey & Co. at Bill’s estate in Rensselaerville, New York, you knew never to go hungry. In classic old English tradition, the event would be heavy on the alcohol but very light on the food. Bill’s top lieutenants were from the same social strata, including Cabot Lodge III and Barclay Jones III. Their assistant Eve Goldberg used to quip, “I work for two thirds.†Frank’s wife was nicknamed “Bitsy†and he referred to his children as his “beansâ€, short for jellybeans.
At their core, I found the Careys decent and honorable businessmen. Perhaps Bill’s formative business experience came in 1963 when a company the family owned, National Sugar Manufacturing Co. in Colorado, had to be liquidated. As often happens in bankruptcies, some of the smaller creditors lost out. In this case about 80 beet farmers in Colorado and Kansas didn’t get paid. Twenty years later, Bill tracked them down and wrote personal checks to all of them, making sure they finally were made whole. Neither Bill nor Frank ever mentioned that story at any time that I was with them. I only heard about it later third hand. Bill did it because he thought he should.
As for Frank, very early in my career I was negotiating one of Bill’s sale/leasebacks when, after the documents were signed, the other lawyer recognized that he’d missed something and needed it changed. The error was completely in Bill’s favor, but when I went to Frank to ask what I should do he didn’t miss a beat. “Change it to make it right†he said. I gained a lot of respect for Frank Carey that day.
Frank had a mean streak, he held some personal views which I found problematic and he could carry a grudge, but comparing the Careys to others with whom I’ve dealt in my 36 years as a business lawyer, I would rank the Careys very high in terms of integrity.
That doesn’t answer the question though, of whether or not our school should have “rebranded†itself. Already, the Law School at the University of Maryland is the “Carey Schoolâ€. As one classmate wrote, “so now we’re part of a chain of law schools?†Another agreed. “For the school, perhaps this hurts a bit. One suspects that the most elite law schools would not sell their names. By taking the money, Penn may have signaled that it has abandoned the pretense that it is in the same league with Harvard, etc.â€
During every meeting of the Law Alumni Society, you can be sure that I’ll raise the issue with Law School Dean Ted Ruger of why tuition is so obscenely high. Ted’s response generally is, “we intend to be and remain an elite law schoolâ€. We now then have the question. Were they so inclined, for how much money would Harvard, Yale, Stanford or Chicago have sold the naming rights to their school? If it would be significantly more, and I suspect it would be, then the Dean has some explaining to do.
Beyond that, the entire issue raises the question of the value of the Penn brand. Do we need to, or want to, remove from our graduates the panache that we have been told for decades extends to the Penn name and replace it with the “Carey†School? As a classmate wrote, it will be decades before ‘Carey Law School’ sounds prestigious. In that time we’ll have to first distinguish ourselves from the Law School at the University of Maryland, not Harvard or Yale.
Of course, let’s be honest. The most famous school at Penn is the Wharton School of Finance and Commerce, and it brands itself entirely as “Whartonâ€. Still, that comes with 140 years of history. Thanks to some herculean efforts by many people over the last 40 years, Penn Law School has ascended to those same heights in terms of prestige by attaching itself to the broader University, not distinguishing itself from it.
Finally, what will we do with the money? Will we use it to slash tuition in half, bringing it in line with inflation since I graduated? Then once again we would allow the Middle Class to dream about sending their kids to college without be saddled by a crushing debt burden. Will we build even more plush and modern facilities to show off our vastly improved physical plant? Will we expand Penn Law’s (sorry, “Carey Law’sâ€) outreach to the community?
Other schools have rebranded themselves successfully. Most of those however aren’t among the “eliteâ€. It will be up to the administration to show that by selling our school’s good name we enhance our position among the “eliteâ€, and not admit that we can’t compete at the top level any other way.
Daniel B. Markind
Flaster Greenberg PC
1835 Market Street, Suite 1050, Philadelphia, PA 19103
215.279.9906 · daniel.markind@flastergreenberg.com
Website | Bio | vCard | Forbes.com Contributor | LinkedIn | Twitter | Blog
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32910
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-11-19 01:58 PM - Post#290600
In response to 10Q
Just to be clear, that is Mr. Markind's letter you attached, i.e., they are not your words?
Also Northwestern's law school also has sold naming rights to Pritzker
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21311
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-11-19 02:10 PM - Post#290602
In response to palestra38
That has also been the name of the U of C's med school for some time.
Just to be clear, that is Mr. Markind's letter you attached, i.e., they are not your words?
Also Northwestern's law school also has sold naming rights to Pritzker
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23565
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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Rice TV
11-11-19 04:53 PM - Post#290625
In response to palestra38
Yes. These are Dan's words. He may come to the LaSalle game with me.
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scoop85
Freshman
Posts: 65
Loc: Goshen, NY
Reg: 02-16-12
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11-11-19 05:27 PM - Post#290627
In response to 10Q
I'm a Cornell '85 and Penn Law '88 grad, and I'm disappointed that the university took this path with the "rebranding." I get that it's all about the Benjamins, but I just don't like the optics of this.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32910
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-11-19 05:35 PM - Post#290628
In response to scoop85
Guess on the scales of justice, the cold hard cash presses harder than optics
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