10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-20-19 10:05 AM - Post#291714
In response to palestra38
Yes it is. I'm going for optimism right now. There's plenty of time to go the other way.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-20-19 11:23 AM - Post#291726
In response to Penn7277
I believe that the Quakers need to start taking some of the shots that Steve doesn't like, the mid-range shots. They aren't hitting enough of the shots he likes.
I hope this is the very last thing they do. They scored 1.14 points per possession last night! Offense is not the problem!
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1896
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-20-19 11:52 AM - Post#291731
In response to Chip Bayers
I didn't watch the game, but I'm guessing the ball movement on offense was slow against a "lesser" opponent, just as they seem to do against Ivy teams. Gotta keep the tempo - the movement creates the flow and open looks. Our team does not have dominant isolation players, except possibly Brodeur. But when we slow things down, we give teams chances to zero in on him more. We have to play as if our opponent is an SEC school every time.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-20-19 11:59 AM - Post#291732
In response to Penndemonium
A big problem was actually when AJ got the ball down low--that's when it really, really slowed down. More often than not, he waited too long and the outcome was not positive. He had more success when he was more assertive right away.
Goodman drove well a couple of times, but for the most part we didn't have anyone who could break down the defense and create the kind of flow you described. That's not to say that we didn't have a lot of open shots, though--we did.
I didn't watch the game, but I'm guessing the ball movement on offense was slow against a "lesser" opponent, just as they seem to do against Ivy teams. Gotta keep the tempo - the movement creates the flow and open looks. Our team does not have dominant isolation players, except possibly Brodeur. But when we slow things down, we give teams chances to zero in on him more. We have to play as if our opponent is an SEC school every time.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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11-20-19 01:21 PM - Post#291736
In response to Chip Bayers
I believe that the Quakers need to start taking some of the shots that Steve doesn't like, the mid-range shots. They aren't hitting enough of the shots he likes.
I hope this is the very last thing they do. They scored 1.14 points per possession last night! Offense is not the problem!
This! You guys are talking about offense. We scored 75 points, which is enough to win. We have given up 80 in 3 of 4 games. We either have to increase the offensive output and score 90 or increase the defensive production and limit them to 72. I don't think this team is going to be a great defensive team. Last year we could stay in front of people who drove the ball and didn't really double team. This year all of our freshmen get beat off the dribble or go under screens on shooters and Ryan hasn't gotten back to a quality level of defense yet. That means we have to focus on scoring more in my opinion because we aren't going to be able to make huge defensive improvements unless Max LL and/or Jonah Charles are defensive stoppers.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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11-20-19 01:23 PM - Post#291737
In response to Penn7277
Just a thought. Wonder if the longer distance for 3 pointers is contributing to the difficulties we are having and why our percentage on them is so low. If that's the case, maybe it is time to take some 10-12 foot shots.
That, however, does nothing to solve the defensive woes that we have been suffering, i.e. 3 out of 4 games giving up more than 80 points.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12530
Reg: 12-07-04
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Lafayette
11-20-19 04:15 PM - Post#291763
In response to SteveChop
It's not the length of the shots, as our opponents have demonstrated, it's the selection of them and not being set. The offense is generating enough good looks. As has been said ad nauseam, unless the defense improves or someone on offense makes a huge leap, it's going to be tough. Watching bad defense is not fun and very quickly the fight to come back in games will start to fade if their d isn't ever going to give them a chance.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Lafayette
11-20-19 04:37 PM - Post#291771
In response to Quakers03
How on earth couldn't Jerome Allen win with Antonio and Foreman?
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2137
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Re: Lafayette
11-20-19 04:57 PM - Post#291773
In response to palestra38
How on earth couldn't Jerome Allen win with Antonio and Foreman?
Foreman didn't become Foreman until after the coaching change.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-20-19 05:31 PM - Post#291781
In response to weinhauers_ghost
they put up 22 shots at the 3 point line compared to us putting up 33. remember, James harden aside, it's more about preventing shots being taken than worrying about 3 pt % against us. All else equal, we will gladly take that. shots are going in right now for the other team. that will revert.
Stay the course.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-20-19 05:36 PM - Post#291784
In response to Jeff2sf
And get our best athletes back out there
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-20-19 10:43 PM - Post#291850
In response to Penn7277
To me, the worst thing we can do is start taking lower percentage shots that produce fewer points per possession. Goodman, Betley, Washington, and AJ are all shooting at least 100 percentage points lower than last year from 3. I don’t think they all have irretrievably forgotten how to shoot the ball. Yes, our style of play results in a couple of clunkers every year where we shoot a million 3s and miss most of them. But over the course of a season our approach is sound. We will hit more shots. As Jeff points out, opponents will miss more, too.
On continuing to shoot 3s, I’ll tell you what I say to the kids I coach almost every timeout when the other team gets on a run and our kids get a little down. “What we do works. Just keep doing what we do.†I’m usually right.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Lafayette
11-20-19 11:50 PM - Post#291855
In response to SomeGuy
Couldn’t agree more here. As a fan I’m very frustrated with the issues we saw in Rice and Lafayette games and of course our 3 point shooting hasn’t been good... BUT the strategy is right and honestly that hasn’t been the reason we lost those games. Plus the reality is the guys missing are below their own average right now so some point we will see a correction.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-21-19 12:41 AM - Post#291856
In response to Penndemonium
For much of the game, O'Hanlon had a defender cover Goodman when we inbounded at our own end, at least until he got the ball. It was clear that Lafayette didn't want us running and gunning full court--and they largely succeeded.
I didn't watch the game, but I'm guessing the ball movement on offense was slow against a "lesser" opponent, just as they seem to do against Ivy teams. Gotta keep the tempo - the movement creates the flow and open looks. Our team does not have dominant isolation players, except possibly Brodeur. But when we slow things down, we give teams chances to zero in on him more. We have to play as if our opponent is an SEC school every time.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-21-19 08:38 PM - Post#291955
In response to penn nation
I’m sure we can figure out how to function with Goodman as the lone ball handler, but we are set up to play with 2 combos out there.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-03-19 11:45 PM - Post#293482
In response to SomeGuy
Well it doesn’t make me feel much better about it and wish we had Dingle for game, BUT Lafayette just DEMOLISHED St. Joes at St. Joes 94-71. Their KP rating jumped from 219 before game to 186 after, so their offense is looking really good (even though St. Joes is short staffed).
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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12-03-19 11:50 PM - Post#293484
In response to Mike Porter
Curious to know how many backdoor layups they got tonight. They just killed Penn with the cutters all night long. And when not cutting, they were nailing open jumpers and threes.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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12-03-19 11:57 PM - Post#293485
In response to Mike Porter
They jumped from 180 to 154 in Torvik rankings.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2137
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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12-04-19 12:28 AM - Post#293489
In response to Mike Porter
Well it doesn’t make me feel much better about it and wish we had Dingle for game, BUT Lafayette just DEMOLISHED St. Joes at St. Joes 94-71. Their KP rating jumped from 219 before game to 186 after, so their offense is looking really good (even though St. Joes is short staffed).
Oh, great. Lafayette's going to contend for the Big 5 championship, too?
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