Anonymous
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02-09-06 06:23 PM - Post#14949
While I personally disagree w/ Boxman's overall assessment, I respect the time he took to put an analysis together on this weekend's matchup in his weekly Purple Pennings.
Couple of key points:
- Looking at the stats, Kevin is better than Teddy was although Teddy was a heady/classy player (much like Kevin is).
- I would give Abe and Thomas a "wash," Lee over <Hamilton> [er..Simmons I mean], and Mastro the edge over VanderBaan but understand the home cooking.
- Griffin doesn't look like Frodo anymore - he shaved his head. Besides, Colin Cunningham looks like Travolta from Welcome Back Kotter....how 'bout a chant of "Ba-Ba-Ba---Ba-Ba Barbarino! when he touches the ball.
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Purple Pennings 2/10/06
So, you may have heard, there’s a pretty big pair of basketball games up at the Hart Center tomorrow. The men and women will both take on Bucknell, which sits atop the standings in both cases. A win for the men gets the team back in the race to be one of the host sites for the Patriot League tournament. A win for the women has the same effect. Hopefully, you’ve got a ticket already because I’m willing to bet there are very few if any still available. Unfortunately, since tomorrow’s women’s game will be the first I attend this season, I am unable to give you any insightful commentary regarding that game. However, men’s basketball happens to be one of my specialties, so you’ll find below a detailed analysis of tomorrow’s matchup.
Point Guard: #1 Torey Thomas vs. #5 Abe Badmus
This might be the closest matchup amongst the starting five. Thomas has taken his play to another level, and it’s even more impressive when you consider the fact that he doesn’t have a backup. Thomas ranks 11th in the Patriot League in scoring (11.5 PPG), ninth rebounding (5.3 RPG, he’s 5’11!), second in steals (2.67 SPG), and first in assists (4.78 APG). Badmus doesn’t score or rebound like Thomas (7.0, 3.7), but he ranks right behind Thomas in steals and assists (2.00, 4.14). Badmus controlled Thomas in the Patriot League title game last year, and Thomas had a rough game earlier this season in Lewisburg. Thomas must find a way to solve the problems he’s had with Badmus in order for Holy Cross to win the game.
EDGE: Thomas, barely.
Shooting Guard: #14 Kevin Hamilton vs. #12 Kevin Bettencourt
Like I wrote a few weeks ago, Hamilton is the best player in the conference. He fills up every column on the stat sheet. He ranks second in scoring (18.0 PPG), first in rebounds (6.3 RBG), first in steals (3.27 SPG), and eighth in assists (3.14 APG). When he’s hot, Bettencourt might be the best shooter in the league; however, he also happens to be one of the streakiest shooters in the league, and he’s nowhere near as good as Hamilton on the defensive end. Hamilton struggled in the first half at Bucknell, and he’ll have to be at his absolute best to lead the Crusaders to victory. Don’t forget to chant “Teddy’s Better!” (Bettencourt’s brother, Teddy, starred for Holy Cross in the early 90s)
EDGE: Hamilton
Small Forward: #10 Keith Simmons vs. #3 Charles Lee
Who has the edge in this matchup depends on the health of Simmons. If he remains at 100% for the entire game, Holy Cross has the edge. He’s one of the best three-point shooters in the league (46%) and ranks in the top 10 in steals (1.3 SPG), scoring (13.1 PPG), and offensive rebounds (2.09 PG). Lee had a solid game versus the Crusaders earlier in the year, scoring 12 points and collecting nine rebounds. He and Simmons are both very athletic, so the battle between the two should be fun to watch. Simmons needs to get a big dunk early on to get the crowd excited and rattle the Bison.
EDGE: Simmons by a slim margin, and only if he’s healthy.
Power Forward: #21 Alex Vander Baan vs. #1 Darren Mastropaolo
Vander Baan and Mastropaolo are different types of players. Mastropaolo uses his size and plays physical near the basket. Vander Baan likes to utilize his jump shot, particularly from the baseline. Mastropaolo isn’t much of a scorer, and in truth, he doesn’t exactly light up the stat sheet in any category. Vander Baan is prone to make some freshman mistakes, but he has flashed some serious scoring ability at times this season (he’s scored over 20 points multiple times). Last time versus Bucknell, the Crusaders got only two points from somebody not named Hamilton, Simmons, or Thomas. A big game from Vander Baan could put HC over the top.
EDGE: Vander Baan
Center: #00 Tim Clifford vs. #32 Chris McNaughton (U-S-A)
Recently, Clifford has been on fire, averaging 13.5 points over the last six games. In the game at Bucknell, he played only seven minutes. Holy Cross had no inside presence and nobody to stop McNaughton, who had 15 points. McNaughton is unquestionably the best center in the Patriot League (13.3 PPG), but if Clifford keeps up his stellar play, the gap isn’t as big as it was earlier in the season. Clifford is also more of a defensive factor than McNaughton. He blocks 1.52 shots per game compared to 0.57 for McNaughton. Clifford must contain McNaughton on the offensive end for the Crusaders to prevail.
EDGE: McNaughton
Bench: Holy Cross vs. Bucknell
Neither team gets much scoring from the bench, but both teams have role players that will play a key part in the outcome of the game. Bucknell has the two best bench players in the game, with swingman Donald Brown and point guard John Griffin (Please chant Frodo whenever he as the ball. He’s a spitting image of Elijah Wood’s character in Lord of the Rings). Both are capable players and there isn’t too much of a drop off between them and the starters. The Crusaders’ key bench players are Kevin Hyland, Colin Cunningham, and Lawrence Dixon. The lack of a backup point hurts the team at times. Hyland is a serviceable big man and he’s capable of pulling down some big rebounds on the offensive end. Cunningham and Dixon are freshmen, and thus mistake prone, but both are solid contributors. Holy Cross will need somebody from the bench to step up in order to win.
EDGE: Bucknell
Keys to Victory
Bucknell proved it could win in the Hart Center last year in the Patriot League title game. In the past two games versus the Bison, the Crusaders have struggled mightily in the first half, and the deficit has proved too much to overcome. To pull off the upset, the team needs to remain close in the first half, so the crowd won’t quiet down. A quick start would get the building rocking and then the crowd would have a chance to affect the outcome of the game. Holy Cross must be more fluid in its half-court offense and get Clifford involved to have success. Bucknell is far from unbeatable, and the Crusaders have the talent to win. HC should protect its home court, and it will, 63-55.
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boxman
newbie
Posts: 16
Reg: 01-24-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 06:26 PM - Post#14950
In response to
WAIT!
I posted it, but I didn't write it. This is the second Purple Pennings I've posted. The last one exaplained that it is written by The Crusader's Sports Editor who is one of Torey's Troops (a 10-person hardcore fan group).
Just wanted to clarify. I won't be able to totally answer to the people who disagree (unless I feel like it).
And...
Do you mean Lee over Simmons?
Cunningham no longer has crazy hair.
| realboxman.blogspot.com - Holy Cross Fan Blog |
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Anonymous
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 06:29 PM - Post#14951
In response to boxman
My bad box..yes, I mean Lee over Simmons. Thanks for the clarification.
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bison02
newbie
Posts: 30
Reg: 01-23-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 07:22 PM - Post#14952
In response to
Very comprehensive analysis but my read on it from the Box's perspective (BOX! HA) is,
"If _______ (Insert Holy Cross Player) is really hot, then they will have the advantage over _______ (Insert Bucknell player). Advantage: Holy Cross"
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BUFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1936
Reg: 01-24-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 07:34 PM - Post#14953
In response to bison02
Breakin Bison, you took the words out of my mouth. I just read that and was coming here to post the exact same thoughts...Even the Griffin hair comment!
Based on his blog, you would think Bucknell doesn't stand a chance! The biggest joke to me was that VanderBaan is better than Mastropaolo. I know Mastropaolo doesn't light up the box score, but he does the small things that often go unrecognized. Also, VanderBaan was absolutely worthless in Lewisburg. I admit that I am basing my opinion on him on one game, but from what I saw, I find it hard to believe he could be better than Mastropaolo.
Simmons > Lee is also a joke. With the exception of Lee's slump from Nova through the Cable Car Classic, I think he has to receive serious contention for the league's player of the year.
One more comment is that the advantage of Bucknell's bench needs to be given more focus. Bucknell does get a lot of scoring from their bench contrary to what the blog said. Just ask Navy who saw the BU bench drop 40+ on them. Vegotsky and Brown have both scored double digits several times, and Griffin has also contributed many points. Moreso, the lack of a bench for HC really hurts Thomas, Simmons, and Hamilton. Without them getting regular breathers, Bucknell gets a big advantage late in the game as their starters tire. That advantage was evident in Lewisbug. HC cut the 20 point BU lead to 8, but completely faded out at that point. With more stamina, HC may have completed the comeback.
I do appreciate his analysis, but I just happen to disagree with some pieces of it. I am sure my thoughts have a slight BU bias, but I tried to take a balanced look.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 07:47 PM - Post#14954
In response to BUFan
Yes, no question the Bison bench has a huge advantage and the numbers show it. To not even mention Vegotsky, who is hitting over 60% of his 3's, brings the whole analysis into question. Vegotsky may not be able to get his shots with Simmons and/or Hamilton extending the D, but that will open up other opportunities if they have to come that far out from the basket.
As far as the Badmus vs Thomas comparison goes, the author only looks at stats and appears to have never seen Abe play. To begin with, Badmus is every bit as good a rebounder as Thomas but his average is a bit lower because: (a) he plays far fewer minutes; and (b) BU has more rebounding options so he does not have to crash the boards. Also not mentioned is that Thomas' shooting pct for the year is 41.7% while Badmus' FG pct is 52.9%. Abe is also a better FT shooter, and is the reigning PL defensive player of the year.
As good as Charles has been playing, however, I don't think there's any choice right now for PL POY except for Hamilton. He has been tremendous this year in every phase of the game.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 07:51 PM - Post#14955
In response to Bison137
Hey, this is great locker room bulletin board stuff. Eric or one of the regulars that is on campus ought to get this to the team. The starters might like to know that 4 of the 5 HC starters are better than them.
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boxman
newbie
Posts: 16
Reg: 01-24-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 07:59 PM - Post#14956
In response to bison63
1. Again, I did not write it.
2. Simmons is the best athlete in the league when healthy, and he has a great FG%. In addition, the author said "Simmons by a slim margin, and only if he’s healthy," which is his major problem this year. This takes nothing away from Lee.
3. He's seen Abe twice against HC. "Badmus controlled Thomas in the Patriot League title game last year, and Thomas had a rough game earlier this season in Lewisburg. Thomas must find a way to solve the problems he’s had with Badmus in order for Holy Cross to win the game.
EDGE: Thomas, barely." Sure he's a homer, but he's not calling this a blowout either.
4. The Bison already read the blog. They just laugh.
| realboxman.blogspot.com - Holy Cross Fan Blog |
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Bison22
goober
Posts: 53
Reg: 01-23-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 08:23 PM - Post#14957
In response to boxman
"Simmons is teh best athlete in teh league when healthy."
It hard to argue pure athleticism, although Donald Brown has as much as anyone in the league. But athleticism doesn't equate to basketball ability. (Otherwise Bucknell and Holy Cross would never pull the upsets they have). A player is not measured against Army...he is measured in these games. Charles Lee is better then Simmons and every unbiased person in the league knows this.
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Husky - Bison
maximus
Posts: 131
Reg: 01-24-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 08:32 PM - Post#14958
In response to
If nothing else, this was amusing. Based on the fact nearly every Holy Cross is better than their Bucknell counterpart, you'd think Holy Cross would be 19-3, 10-0 in League, RPI 42!
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 08:41 PM - Post#14959
In response to Bison22
I too give a small edge to Lee if he continues his recent play and is willing to look for his shot. However, he does not have a huge edge over a healthy Simmons. Both were first team all-league last year, both were pre-season first-team this year, and both will be first-team all-league again at the conclusion of the season.
Simmons is a great shooter. Charles is a better rebounder and defender. I think you could find some people in the league who might make a case for them being pretty equal.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 08:49 PM - Post#14960
In response to Husky - Bison
Quote:
If nothing else, this was amusing. Based on the fact nearly every Holy Cross is better than their Bucknell counterpart, you'd think Holy Cross would be 19-3, 10-0 in League, RPI 42!
We should not take them at all lightly however. Had Simmons and Hamilton been healthy in November and December, they would have won 3 or 4 more games and might be as good as 18-6 right now (almost certainly 17-7). Not as good as the Bison record, but a good one nonetheless.
When you combine a good team with a big homecourt edge, it should make for a very competitive game. Pomeroy has us as a 2 point favorite, while Sagarin has BU favored by 3 points.
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sadereditor
newbie
Posts: 3
Loc: Worcester, MA
Reg: 02-09-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 08:56 PM - Post#14961
In response to Husky - Bison
Hi, I'm the guy who wrote all this so-called "bulletin board" material. I'm not going to pretend that I'm not a homer, and my article is not intended to be some completely objective view on the game. It's just my opinion filtered through some purple shaded glasses. As far as the complaints you've made about my article:
1) Picking Vander Baan over Mastropaolo was a mistake. I know that Mastropaolo's a better player but he's never really impressed me much. I picked Vander Baan because he's been playing pretty well recently, and he actually does things that are quantifiable.
2) Torey Thomas and Abe Badmus is a very close matchup, and I mentioned in the article that Badmus has done a good job defending him. I realize that stats aren't everything, but Torey's stats are better that Abe's across the board, which is why I said he had a slight advantage. If they played one on one 10 times, Torey would win six times.
3) Lee and Simmons are probably equal as players. I gave Simmons a slight advantage, and only if he's healthy. I don't see how this can be a major point of contention. Lee is a damn good basketball player, I never claim that he isn't. It is my opinion that Simmons is a little better than him, and the stats agree with me.
So if you take out my homerism, the starting lineups have two pushes, two advantages for Bucknell and one advantage for Holy Cross. I'm not trying to be Dan Shaughnessy, there was no way I was going to pick against HC in this game (especially because it's at the Hart Center). So, everybody calm down and may the best team win. And if the Bucknell players need to read some HC student column to get fired up, that's pretty sad.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 10:01 PM - Post#14962
In response to sadereditor
Quote:
Hi, I'm the guy who wrote all this so-called "bulletin board" material. I'm not going to pretend that I'm not a homer, and my article is not intended to be some completely objective view on the game. It's just my opinion filtered through some purple shaded glasses. As far as the complaints you've made about my article:
1) Picking Vander Baan over Mastropaolo was a mistake. I know that Mastropaolo's a better player but he's never really impressed me much. I picked Vander Baan because he's been playing pretty well recently, and he actually does things that are quantifiable.
2) Torey Thomas and Abe Badmus is a very close matchup, and I mentioned in the article that Badmus has done a good job defending him. I realize that stats aren't everything, but Torey's stats are better that Abe's across the board, which is why I said he had a slight advantage. If they played one on one 10 times, Torey would win six times.
3) Lee and Simmons are probably equal as players. I gave Simmons a slight advantage, and only if he's healthy. I don't see how this can be a major point of contention. Lee is a damn good basketball player, I never claim that he isn't. It is my opinion that Simmons is a little better than him, and the stats agree with me.
So if you take out my homerism, the starting lineups have two pushes, two advantages for Bucknell and one advantage for Holy Cross. I'm not trying to be Dan Shaughnessy, there was no way I was going to pick against HC in this game (especially because it's at the Hart Center). So, everybody calm down and may the best team win. And if the Bucknell players need to read some HC student column to get fired up, that's pretty sad.
Thomas' stats are not "better across the board". Badmus is shooting 53% vs Thomas' 41% and Badmus is also a better free throw shooter. The rebounding differential is due to minutes played and role. Badmus can definitely hold his own with TT on the boards. And don't forget that it was Badmus, not TT, who was PL defensive player of the year. Looking at the two, I would call it even but, as you point out, Badmus has controlled TT the last few games (actually 3 of the last 4) and held him to a 28% shooting pct.
One big BU edge is the bench. Brown is the league's best 6th man and would start for any other team in the league, and Vegotsky may be the best pure shooter in the league, esp from the 3-point range. The BU bench contributes twice the points that the HC bench does.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 10:08 PM - Post#14963
In response to sadereditor
Hey 'sader, no one is upset, we just think its funny. That's what these boards are all about, and I think most of us understand the purple haze from which you are coming. Fact is that while we ARE the better team this year, HC is good enough to beat us at the Hart if we do not come ready to play. Further fact is, it is who is the best team for three days in March that really matters.
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boxman
newbie
Posts: 16
Reg: 01-24-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 10:10 PM - Post#14964
In response to bison63
Quote:
Further fact is, it is who is the best team for three days in March that really matters.
Uh oh, don't let our board see that.
| realboxman.blogspot.com - Holy Cross Fan Blog |
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ericatbucknell
PhD Student
Posts: 1940
Reg: 01-22-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 10:21 PM - Post#14965
In response to boxman
i just tried to post a really long and more or less well thought out take on the game. apparently there is a shot clock of some sort on this board and the red lights lit up before i could click the little button at the bottom. oh well.
statistically, bucknells offense is about four points better and its defense one point superior. home court advantage is about four points. so the pure numbers say we have a game, but only a good game because its in worcester.
ultimately, i think this is bucknells game to lose. so far these guys have shown up when needed. unfortunately, if holy cross is playing good basketball, theyre going to have to show up for 40 minutes on saturday night. can they? certainly. will they? i certainly hope so.
and to the author: ralph willard, like pat flannery, wins games with team defense. shame on you for looking at more or less meaningless individual statistics to justify your biases! (and i mean that in the most good-hearted yet rivalrous way possible.) oh, and torey cant score of the dribble to save his life; id take abe in a heartbeat!
The Bracket Bustin' Bison are Back!
Okay. First round streak BACK ON! |
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jck45
Junior
Posts: 221
Reg: 01-24-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 11:35 PM - Post#14966
In response to ericatbucknell
Edge to Coach Flannery over Coach Willard.
There, I said it.
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sadereditor
newbie
Posts: 3
Loc: Worcester, MA
Reg: 02-09-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 11:38 PM - Post#14967
In response to ericatbucknell
I will admit, Bucknell's bench is far superior to our bench. We'll be lucky to get more than eights points from Hyland, Cunningham, and Dixon. It's also clear that Bucknell is the better team, but let's not forget that we weren't healthy at the beginning of the year, and Tim Clifford has only recently emerged as a threat. We're probably 17-7 at least if we were healthy with a productive Clifford for the entire season. We scared the crap out of BC without Simmons for most of the second half. Bucknell is better that us, but I think we're definitely capable of winning on Saturday and at Bucknell in the Patriot League tournament (if we get there, God willing)
As far as the Torey/Badmus argument, I think we can all agree that Willard wouldn't trade Torey for Badmus and Flannery wouldn't trade Badmus for Torey. The matchup is that even.
Also, I'm aware of the problems that come with using counting stats to justify my argument, but I'm no John Hollinger, and the individual statistics helped my argument the most!
P.S. Sucks to B.U. clap clap clapclapclap
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Anonymous
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 11:50 PM - Post#14968
In response to sadereditor
Hey sader, it may suck to "be us" but at least we're not "Ho-ly S&*t!"
All in good fun of course!
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boxman
newbie
Posts: 16
Reg: 01-24-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 11:52 PM - Post#14969
In response to
That's what we chant when Simmons drains 8 straight 3's.
| realboxman.blogspot.com - Holy Cross Fan Blog |
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jck45
Junior
Posts: 221
Reg: 01-24-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 11:57 PM - Post#14970
In response to
btw... What ever happened to coach ralph's posts?
I guess he was just too ashamed to post anything after the Lehigh choke......
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GoBison
Junior
Posts: 221
Reg: 01-22-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-09-06 11:57 PM - Post#14971
In response to
I have a topic we can all rally around... It was pretty obvious to anybody who's watched basketball in the last 10 years this game would be meaningful. How does the league office decide to put 'Gate/American on TV this weekend?
Oh, and I'll take Badmus any day.
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sadereditor
newbie
Posts: 3
Loc: Worcester, MA
Reg: 02-09-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-10-06 12:15 AM - Post#14972
In response to GoBison
One question: Is McNaughton legitmately German or is he an American born on a military base in Germany? I need to know if the U-S-A chant will actually be effective.
And GoBison, I think all HC fans would take Thomas and all BU fans would take Badmus. There's really no debate there.
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jck45
Junior
Posts: 221
Reg: 01-24-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-10-06 12:29 AM - Post#14973
In response to sadereditor
How can you not give Badmus the edge after you yourself admit that Abe has owned Thomas the past two games?
Last night at the game, I was also reminded how quick Abe is. I mean, Villanova quick.
I think you need to be a bit more responsible with your journalism. You shouldn't be giving HC fans that kind of false hope.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-10-06 12:55 AM - Post#14974
In response to GoBison
Quote:
I have a topic we can all rally around... It was pretty obvious to anybody who's watched basketball in the last 10 years this game would be meaningful. How does the league office decide to put 'Gate/American on TV this weekend?
Oh, and I'll take Badmus any day.
I was thinking that exact same thing earlier today. Clearly if there was one game during the whole season that you could have picked 6 months ago as a likely showdown game, this is it. I know they showed the first match, but if it had to be just one, THIS is the one.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-10-06 01:24 AM - Post#14975
In response to bison63
>>>One question: Is McNaughton legitmately German or is he an American born on a military base in Germany? I need to know if the U-S-A chant will actually be effective.<<<
His father is American (played football for Lafayette) and he holds dual citizenship. He grew up in Germany.
After having played Duke at Cameron Indoor, Syracuse in the dome, Pitt at Petersen, St Joes on Hawk Hill, Villanova at their place, and Kansas on national TV (as well as three games in the Hart), I doubt if any chant will affect him much one way or the other.
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Anonymous
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Re: Boxman Blog's Musings on the BU/HC Matchup
02-10-06 01:43 AM - Post#14976
In response to bison63
Is there any way NESN, FSNE, or ESPNU/CSTV pick this game up on TV?
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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Lee vs Simmons and Badmus vs Lee
02-12-06 06:54 PM - Post#14977
In response to
I wonder if Boxman's friend still gives the edge to Simmons over Lee.
As to the Thomas - Badmus matchup, I see that Thomas shot 1 for 11 in this game, which gives him a 21.8% shooting pct (12 for 55) against the Bison over their last eight matchups. While the Bison matchup zone and bad luck likely accounts for some of the poor shooting, I would think that the defense of Badmus likely gets a fair amount of credit as well.
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