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Username Post: Check My Reasoning re: League Schedule        (Topic#23784)
HGA 
Freshman
Posts: 87

Loc: New York
Reg: 10-16-18
01-08-20 09:53 AM - Post#296237    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I’ve not gathered statistics but I see no way around this due to other conferences having already started. For every team playing down, the other team is playing up. We need the Duke’s of the world to want to play “lesser” teams and we should do the same for our D-3 partners. If we’re all doing it, there should be no excuses. It also allows those deep on the bench to get some burn and make teams a little deeper in conference play.

 
welcometothejungle 
Sophomore
Posts: 166

Age: 22
Reg: 07-31-19
Check My Reasoning re: League Schedule
01-08-20 07:23 PM - Post#296268    
    In response to HGA

On this week's episode of the Mitch Henderson Radio Show (available here: https://princetontigers.podbean.com/e/the-mitch-he... - around the 22:00 mark), Coach Henderson discussed some details on next year's scheduling with Princeton moving its fall semester exams to before the holidays.

From what Henderson said, the schedule changes will look like this:
-"Travel partners" are gone
-First league games will be right after New Years on January 2nd
-10 week Ivy League schedule with limited # of back to backs
-Sundays will still be free, and no classes will be missed still
-He mentions possibility of playing games in the afternoon on Saturdays on single game weekends

He also mentions that Princeton will be starting off with a road game at Harvard next year, which suggests that there won't be a conference opener with travel partners either (ie no Princeton/Penn matchup to start IL play, etc)


Edited by welcometothejungle on 01-08-20 07:24 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Stuart Suss 
PhD Student
Posts: 1208

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
01-08-20 07:48 PM - Post#296270    
    In response to welcometothejungle

If Coach Henderson is correct and there is to be:
1. a 10 week schedule, and
2. Sundays will still be free.

Then, the league will have 4 weeks of back to backs and 6 weeks of single games.

A "limited" number of back to backs only means 4 instead of the current 6.

Even if travel partners are "gone," there is still a practical, geographic limitation on back to backs. Cornell and Brown or Harvard will not be back to back. Dartmouth and Penn or Princeton will not be back to back. There will have to be travel partners even if it is not the current set of partners.


 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1726
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
Check My Reasoning re: League Schedule
01-08-20 09:49 PM - Post#296289    
    In response to Stuart Suss

1. I understood that if the schedule changed, it would likely be radically different, which is precisely why I asked the question now, while the traditional schedule is still in effect. At any rate, I would still be grateful if someone could check my math and tell me if I'm right or not.

2. I think the main reason the players like having Sunday off is this; with Friday/Saturday games, you get home late Saturday night/early Sunday morning (with the possible exception of the longest trips), and if it's a short trip, you might even manage to go out late with your friends. Then you've got all Sunday to catch up on your sleep and your schoolwork on campus. Realistically, if you play Fridays and Sundays, the schedule is going to end up like this:

a. You'll play Friday night, then stay at a hotel in the same area.
b. You'll get up early Saturday, drive to the second school, and then have an actual practice on Saturday afternoon (and probably a longer and more detailed one than now, because you would actually have some time to prepare for the second team.)
c. You'll have a shootaround Sunday morning, play the game Sunday afternoon, and then spend the rest of Sunday getting home; if it's one of the longer trips, you'll get back late Sunday night, have to crash immediately, and then get right back up again for class on Monday morning. The only realistic times to do schoolwork would be on the bus and Saturday night, and it wouldn't be on campus; you also have no time to decompress with non-basketball friends. If I'm a player, I totally want to keep my Sundays free, and this is even before you get into the fact that athletes are more likely to be churchgoers than the campus at large. It is also ironic that the players, at least in this instance, seem to be more concerned about academics than the league is.

3. I am assuming that Henderson is not counting the abomination as one of the ten weekends. Next year, Selection Sunday is March 14, and there are 11 weekends between there and January 2, so we are still going up against the big guys on the final weekend and on most schools' spring breaks. Fail.

4. Maybe they want to rotate the back-to-back games each year in some idea of "fairness", but I agree with Stu that it would be silly to abandon the travel partners all together. It also seems to me that you want the longer schleps to be the back-to-backs, so you can avoid two round trips to the same far-away area. If there are four back-to-back weekends, I would do it this way (home-and-away for each combination, of course):

--D & H vs. the P's
--D & H vs. the C's
--B & Y vs. the P's
--B & Y vs. the C's

This would cover all of the ten longest trips in the league and 14 of the 17 longest (out of 28 total), and at least three of each team's four longest trips.

Personally, I'd pick two Tuesdays in the middle of the season, and have each team play one of their closer opponents on those days, which would in turn allow you to both move the abomination up one week and push the start of the season back one week, so that the students are back for all the games.

5. Any word yet on whether the women will still be at opposite sites from the men, whether everything will be doubleheaders, or whether the two will be disconnected to a greater or lesser extent?
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


Edited by dperry on 01-08-20 09:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Stuart Suss 
PhD Student
Posts: 1208

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
01-08-20 10:35 PM - Post#296292    
    In response to dperry

David,

The original Friday/Sunday proposal would have included one home game and one road game. It would not have been an elongated road trip.

I have heard that the women are in favor of playing more doubleheaders with the men, but I am not sure that the proposal mandates that result.

The Ivy tournament is not likely to be moved from Selection Sunday weekend. Apparently ESPN told the Ivy League that it was welcome to play its tournament any time it wanted, but if it was not on Selection Sunday weekend, ESPN would not televise it.


 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1726
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
01-08-20 11:56 PM - Post#296295    
    In response to Stuart Suss

  • Stuart Suss Said:


The original Friday/Sunday proposal would have included one home game and one road game. It would not have been an elongated road trip.



OK, that would have been a bit better, but on the weekends where the road game was a long trip, it would still have eaten up most of the weekend; you'd still be traveling much of Saturday (you might not have had the practice, though) and Sunday would still be mostly eaten up by the game either way. To me, it still makes much more sense to have at least the longer trips be either totally home or away.

  • Quote:

The Ivy tournament is not likely to be moved from Selection Sunday weekend. Apparently ESPN told the Ivy League that it was welcome to play its tournament any time it wanted, but if it was not on Selection Sunday weekend, ESPN would not televise it.




OK, it is infuriatingly difficult to find a complete schedule for this year's conference tournaments this far ahead, so I'm just going to say to heck with it and look at what happened last year. There were four conferences that ended their tournaments the weekend before Selection Sunday: ASun, Big South, Missouri Valley, Ohio Valley. OK, the MVC and OVC are probably more important to ESPN than us, the other two not so much. Nine other tournaments were playing during that weekend; the most popular ones would have been the semifinals of the Horizon, Metro Atlantic, Patriot, and Southern, and either the quarters or semis of the West Coast.

Now, ESPN has what, five regular channels, plus online? Now, it does appear that several of the conferences listed above have their "networks" with ESPN as well, so I grant there is some conflict, but a.) you mean to tell me you can't make it work out, and b.) if someone's getting buried on the final weekend, why is it us and not, say, the Patriot, or the ASun? The only other major thing they're showing at that time of year is the NBA, and there can't be that many games. Frankly, given the ratings we're getting where we are now, they might as well not be televising us. Either we need to pay some other league off to swap places, or we need to get another TV network that respects us more than these guys.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
Naismith 
Freshman
Posts: 67

Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
Check My Reasoning re: League Schedule
01-09-20 12:09 PM - Post#296302    
    In response to dperry

Back-to-backs and travel partners worked pretty well for 64 years.
The regular season Champion going straight to NCAA, or a tie-breaker game for the trip to the NCAA worked pretty well for 61 years.
The smallest Division 1 basketball league in America has no chance of claiming more than one NCAA position, unless the main draw is expanded to 128 teams.
So what's the Problem?
Tell ESPN to fill their Selection Sunday extravaganza with another league that wants to play in the worst rated time slot of the entire week.


Edited by Naismith on 01-09-20 12:12 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 675

Age: 48
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Check My Reasoning re: League Schedule
01-10-20 11:01 AM - Post#296334    
    In response to Naismith

  • Naismith Said:

The regular season Champion going straight to NCAA, or a tie-breaker game for the trip to the NCAA worked pretty well for 61 years.





Yale seemed pretty unhappy at the then-existing status quo in 2015...


Edited by Go Green on 01-10-20 11:01 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Naismith 
Freshman
Posts: 67

Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
Re: Check My Reasoning re: League Schedule
01-11-20 10:09 AM - Post#296501    
    In response to Go Green

So, what's the problem? Co-champions had a playoff on a neutral court and Harvard beat Yale at the Palestra.. Co-champions had a playoff in 2011 on a neutral court and Princeton beat Harvard in New Haven.

 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 675

Age: 48
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Check My Reasoning re: League Schedule
01-11-20 11:53 AM - Post#296505    
    In response to Naismith

  • Naismith Said:
So, what's the problem?



The problem was that a very good and deserving Yale team ended up sitting out the 2015 post-season entirely because Ivy procedures hadn't kept up with the times.

http://ivyhoopsonline.com/2015/03/15/yale-gets- snu...

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2015/03/17/mens- bas...

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/03/16/not e...

When Yale gets angry, changes happen. Not a coincidence that Ivy football instituted instant replay review the season after a missed call cost Yale an undefeated season.

https://www.nhregister.com/colleges/article/Is-i t-...

https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?21...

 
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