mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: OY and POY
02-19-20 05:59 PM - Post#300745
In response to iogyhufi
Yeah, seven Ivies in the Top 150 of weighted experience. Not exactly the juniors and seniors that we thought we'd have, but certainly a more experienced group.
I don't really agree with the Ledlum takes. He has an ORAT of 93 on 30% usage and that ORAT is hampered as much by his bad FT shooting than anything. His TO Rate of 21% is really good for an aggressive freshman (Noah's was 26% last year and 23% this year, speaking of someone who, as a freshman, had a LOT of issues with charges). His second comp at KenPom right now is Kelan Martin and fourth is Anthony Lamb. He also has a lot of value around the hoop with blocks and rebounds.
What's more is that Tommy's motion offense needs players to create (there sure as heck aren't any set plays to create organic opportunities). There are three Harvard players with a usage rate of 20% or more: Ledlum, Kirkwood and Lewis. Ledlum is in five of the Top 10 most frequent Harvard lineups, and in two of those he plays without both of them vs. with both of them in just one. So, generally, he's *has* to create.
I'd agree that Dingle is the favorite, but I don't think it's over by any stretch. Ledlum would need to play a lot more than I expect him to over the final three weeks, though. Not that this should matter, but it kinda does, Ledlum and Dingle have a similar number of ROW awards.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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Re: OY and POY
02-19-20 06:41 PM - Post#300751
In response to mrjames
Ooh, Anthony Lamb seems like an eerily accurate comparison. Same sort of build and play style and everything.
I don't mean to intimate that Ledlum can't play at all, just that right now he's got some pretty serious issues. He's also a poor shooter, but I'm sure that'll come with time.
I just think that Dingle's banked more production than Ledlum has, plus Ledlum's post-Dartmouth Ivy campaign hasn't exactly been stellar.
Fair enough on Ledlum needing to create. I think he gets tunnel vision that teams could exploit, but so far have not. (Which might make me wrong about that but I suppose we'll see.)
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: OY and POY
02-19-20 06:54 PM - Post#300753
In response to iogyhufi
Eh, I don't think it's a bad sign long-term for the league. Most of the teams are pretty experienced this year - all of Harvard's starters are seniors,
Umm, I think Kirkwood was ROY last year.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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Re: OY and POY
02-19-20 07:05 PM - Post#300756
In response to LyleGold
Eh, I don't think it's a bad sign long-term for the league. Most of the teams are pretty experienced this year - all of Harvard's starters are seniors,
Umm, I think Kirkwood was ROY last year.
Whoops! For some reason, I had in my head that Aiken was still playing and Kirkwood was coming off the bench.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21307
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: OY and POY
02-19-20 07:13 PM - Post#300758
In response to SomeGuy
Are you confusing Penn’s Paul Chambers with the NBA’s Tom Chambers? Paul was a point guard — and a small one at that. Not a big man by any stretch of the imagination.
Yeah, I don't know what got into me there.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2701
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-19-20 07:13 PM - Post#300759
In response to iogyhufi
Me too!
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21307
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-19-20 07:14 PM - Post#300760
In response to LocalTiger
Most of us on the Penn board are even more embarrassed about the current occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue than you are.
On this point you and I certainly agree.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: OY and POY
02-19-20 07:28 PM - Post#300761
In response to iogyhufi
Dingle had a strong start to the year - there’s a reason why his top comps are players like CJ Massinburg, Mike Rosario and Marcus Jordan.
That being said, his production in Ivy play has been at great expense to efficiency. At this point, he’s essentially going to win the award based on minutes played more than anything. That’s why I think he can still be caught. I just fail to see Ledlum playing enough to do so...
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-19-20 09:03 PM - Post#300765
In response to LocalTiger
For what it’s worth, only one of the big men discussed here will have been All-Ivy all 4 years. And it ain’t Thomforde, Dudley, Goodrich, Mueller, Atkinson, or Aririgozuh.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 440
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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02-19-20 10:35 PM - Post#300776
In response to SomeGuy
In response to Professor,
And only one of them is a two- time POY, and it ain't AJ.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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ROY and POY
02-19-20 11:34 PM - Post#300779
In response to penn nation
Most of us on the Penn board are even more embarrassed about the current occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue than you are.
On this point you and I certainly agree.
While any association between Ben Franklin’s University and the world’s most deplorable human being is a stain on our beloved alma mater, there’s no way DJT can be considered a “Penn man.†His father pulled strings to buy his way to an unheard of transfer into the Wharton School from Fordham. He made little or no impact during his two years on campus, nobody really remembers him, and he returned to New York every weekend to be around Fred’s real estate rackets in Queens. Despite claiming to be #1 in his class, class rankings did not exist. We know that he never received any academic honors because they were made public, and the unspeakable name did not appear on the list. Wharton steadfastly refuses to release any transcripts, which would be a fair policy for any student. I wonder if he managed to match W’s gentleman’s C at Yale.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21307
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: OY and POY
02-19-20 11:47 PM - Post#300780
In response to LyleGold
His son-in-law somehow managed to go from the Frisch School to Harvard. He was no brilliant scholar.
You can be darned sure that a large donation from Daddy, now in jail, had everything to do with that.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-19-20 11:52 PM - Post#300781
In response to LocalTiger
In response to LocalTiger,
Each post in the thread already indicates who you are responding to, so there is no need to write it in your post.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: OY and POY
02-20-20 12:27 AM - Post#300784
In response to penn nation
His son-in-law somehow managed to go from the Frisch School to Harvard. He was no brilliant scholar.
You can be darned sure that a large donation from Daddy, now in jail, had everything to do with that.
Yes, Charles Kushner is a major donor to Harvard, but his stint in Federal Prison was over a decade ago. You don’t actually think Trump would allow him to languish in jail while Gov. Blogo walks free, do you?
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21307
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: OY and POY
02-20-20 12:44 AM - Post#300787
In response to LyleGold
Yeah, I was thinking of the ex-Jersey governor who put him in jail and probably wished he was still there.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-20-20 09:44 AM - Post#300798
In response to iogyhufi
During the 11-0 run that Lyle is talking about (the turning point of the game), Yale’s 4 possessions ended in 2 Brodeur steals, 1 Brodeur defensive rebound, and one Dingle rebound. Penn’s 5 possessions ended in 2 Brodeur assists, one Brodeur trip to the line, and one Brodeur 3. Every Penn possession either started or ended with a play by AJ (usually both). During that time, Penn went from down 5 with about 4:30 to play to up 6 with about 2:00 to play.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-20-20 05:48 PM - Post#300879
In response to SomeGuy
Wow, thanks for the recap of the key sequences of the game. AJ was even more critical to the Quakers' success than I realized since Eddie Scott's heroics have gotten so much attention. I plan to rewatch the second half tonight to help get psyched for this weekend's games - not that I need it!
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21307
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-20-20 05:57 PM - Post#300880
In response to LyleGold
AJ was also big in the 2nd half against Cornell. After a brief stint on the bench, he immediately got involved in all phases of the game when it counted in the latter 5-10 minutes.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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ROY and POY
02-21-20 10:35 AM - Post#300924
In response to penn nation
In the one minute AJ wasn't on the court Atkinson immediately scored 5 points. That should say it all. Steve couldn't even get him rest through the 12 media timeout.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: OY and POY
02-21-20 12:14 PM - Post#300939
In response to Quakers03
Look, this LocalTiger character is a clueless fraud. Having rewatched the second half of the Yale game, AJ's influence was everywhere in every phase of the game throughout the entire period. While I raved about his role during the 11-0 run that was the pivotal segment of the game, that understated his importance. I can see someone other than AJ getting POY, but that doesn't change the fact that he is one of, if not the greatest, Ivy centers of all time. Again, I am certain he has no idea what ludicrous means. I'm somewhat amazed that he spelled it correctly.
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