HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-08-20 07:39 PM - Post#299079
Tough game to watch. Refs calling everything. Not team in bonus after 12 minutes. 18 fouls called in 14 minutes
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-08-20 07:59 PM - Post#299084
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
At the half, 15 fouls on Harvard, 11 on Brown.
Deep bench players having to eat up minutes.
Crimson finish with Tretout and Sakota in the backcourt.
Awful to watch.
7 players with 2 fouls
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mobrien
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
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02-08-20 08:00 PM - Post#299086
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Just a foul fest. Baker playing great again, but Amaker is really urinated about the lack of ball and player movement. Juzang got benched for it.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-08-20 08:12 PM - Post#299089
In response to mobrien
Ah yes, that Saturday Ivy officiating.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-08-20 08:25 PM - Post#299096
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
6 fouls called in first 3 minutes
Awful, not entirely consistent either
Not complaining favoring one team, but phantom fouls followed by glaring no calls.
Ugh
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-08-20 08:31 PM - Post#299098
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
10 fouls at13:37 mark
36 fouls!
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-08-20 08:37 PM - Post#299100
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Brown surged ahead by 7, Crimson come back to take the lead. Strange lineups. Mike Martin doing a lot of complaining, but 39 fouls almost evenly distributed
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-08-20 08:39 PM - Post#299101
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Well, it’s going to be another last minute nail biter/war of attrition.
Announcers laughing at the refs
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-08-20 08:45 PM - Post#299106
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Now 42 fouls with 8 minutes left.
Key players for both teams on bench
Did these guy ref B’nai Brith or girls parochial game last night?
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21272
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-08-20 09:04 PM - Post#299109
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Now 42 fouls with 8 minutes left.
Key players for both teams on bench
Did these guy ref B’nai Brith or girls parochial game last night?
Presumably Bnai Brith league was stuffing itself with Shabbat dinner last night.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-08-20 09:23 PM - Post#299118
In response to penn nation
Sorry everyone for persevererating on the refs. It was just an inconsistently called foul fest - 49 fouls.
Congrats to Brown.
Just hope this squad never does an Ivy game again. Ruined the experience even when it looked like Harvard had won.
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mobrien
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
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02-08-20 10:41 PM - Post#299132
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Brown shot 28 of 32 from the line, and Lewis played maybe the worst game of his career.
Looked like Choh might have gotten with a walk there at the end, and didn’t see the foul on Baker unless he got him with the body. We didn’t really deserve to win, but that was honestly the worst officiated game I’ve ever seen.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 4004
Reg: 11-23-04
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02-08-20 10:59 PM - Post#299136
In response to mobrien
Refs were awful at both ends. I had a pretty good angle on the last play and I don't think Choh was fouled, but give Brown some credit for toughness.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-08-20 11:25 PM - Post#299144
In response to Old Bear
Absolutely! Brown played a really competitive game. Anderson and Choh were hard to stop.
Congrats on what should be a strong bid for the tournament.
I had no idea what constituted a foul tonight. There was also no continuity - 49 interruptions for fouls. That’s a play stoppage by the refs every 45 seconds!
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1422
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-08-20 11:39 PM - Post#299147
In response to Old Bear
I don’t think you call that foul. Glad they did.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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mobrien
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
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02-09-20 12:13 AM - Post#299150
In response to Bruno
Anderson and Choh were great, Brown shot 87.5% from the line as a team, and they did a great job doubling Lewis and forcing him into turnovers. Brown definitely deserved it, but the refs were just awful. Felt like overtime would have been a more just result rather than deciding it on what looked like a phantom call.
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digamma
Masters Student
Posts: 468
Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
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Brown
02-09-20 12:26 AM - Post#299151
In response to mobrien
Brown played well, but that game was an abomination officiating wise. The fact that the last three seconds took more than ten minutes of real time says it all. The shot clock error shut the flow of hitting a nice shot.
I"m not sure we should have been given the 2 points to make it 71-69?
Edited by digamma on 02-09-20 12:31 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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02-09-20 12:31 AM - Post#299152
In response to digamma
Truly, it's frustrating when the officials kill your momentum at the end of the game with a preposterously long review.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-09-20 12:35 AM - Post#299153
In response to iogyhufi
The Ivy League Office laughs at our petty concerns about its disinterest in presenting a high quality product and fan experience at our venues.
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mobrien
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
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02-09-20 01:04 AM - Post#299155
In response to iogyhufi
It definitely wasn’t clear why we got the 2 points instead of the ball out of bounds with the score tied. The only thing that would make sense is if the follow went up before the refs blew the play dead. But that was never explained at all, and I wouldn’t trust those refs to get it right. It was impossible to know what they were going to call, but you knew they were going to call something almost every possession.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-09-20 01:21 AM - Post#299156
In response to mobrien
I know it ended up not mattering, but how do you call a jump ball on a simple blocked shot? Even in slow motion it didn’t make sense. Good thing we had roughly 4 stoppages in the last minute so the refs could figure out what they had actually called.
Yes, the refs appeared to blow the play dead believing incorrectly that there was a shot clock violation. Then they realized that there was no violation and gave Harvard what appeared to be a post-whistle put back. Unfortunately, because they had blown the play dead the possible foul by Brown on Bassey’s put back wasn’t noticed. I have no idea if it was a foul under tonight’s rules, but likely they don’t either. It would have helped had they followed the play.
Gotta give credit to coaches and players for keeping their cool.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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02-09-20 10:30 AM - Post#299170
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
The Ivy League gets more refereeing whiplash than any other league in the difference between its Friday and Saturday officiating. Friday you might have a crew of full-time refs that regularly works Big East games (as H and Y did), but on Saturday you'll have a crew of part-timers who work the occasional NEC or Patriot League game (as H and B did).
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-09-20 11:53 AM - Post#299183
In response to iogyhufi
Crazy that Amaker had to use 11 players last night. That means the 12th and 13th roster players entering the season had to step up. What other Ivy squad can go 13 deep? By the way, what's the story with Catchings?
Ivy scheduling varies from year to year, and Harvard (and Dartmouth) have played the toughest schedule thus far. Last year Harvard jumped out with 5 of 6 games at home. At this point Harvard has played 5 of 6 on the road where it has visited the 4 other tournament possible teams (sorry Cornell). Looking forward to 6 of 8 remaining games at Lavietes and 4 of 8 vs the C's.
It's certainly disappointing that our Crimson lost 3 of the 4 consecutive one point/OT games. But that happens, especially on the road. The analytics seem to have Harvard finishing 9-5, down from 10-4. Brown is now in the mix, and is finished with Yale, whereas the P's have to play Yale twice. Penn, having lost twice to Princeton and still having to play Yale 2x better stay healthy and beat Columbia today. If Harvard wins at the C's next weekend and Penn/Yale lose home games vs Yale and Brown next weekend, the P's would be reeling.
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 150
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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02-09-20 12:12 PM - Post#299188
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
At 1-0 (barely) Harvard is the only remaining Ivy team undefeated on its home court. Defending homecourt this year is now mandatory after this gruesome stretch.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-09-20 12:14 PM - Post#299190
In response to Naismith
This game reminded me of Penn v Monmouth in 2018. 4OT, 79 fouls and 101 FT’s 3 starters for both teams fouled out with more than 6 min left in regulation. I just checked, not the same officiating crew.
This game was hard to watch.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-09-20 12:19 PM - Post#299192
In response to Bruno
I don’t think you call that foul. Glad they did.
Agreed. I’ve watched that play about twenty times now, and there may have been slight contact between Baker’s chest and Choh’s right shoulder as he went up. If anything, Choh pushed off with his right arm as he was releasing the shot. No call and OT would have been the fairest result.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21272
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-09-20 12:26 PM - Post#299194
In response to PennFan10
This game reminded me of Penn v Monmouth in 2018. 4OT, 79 fouls and 101 FT’s 3 starters for both teams fouled out with more than 6 min left in regulation. I just checked, not the same officiating crew.
This game was hard to watch.
The Eddie Scott game! Sadly, one very, very skewed data point.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Brown
02-09-20 12:53 PM - Post#299196
In response to penn nation
How did the refs bail out Harvard vs Brown?
Consensus seems to be that refs were awful all game against both teams.
Harvard was called for 27 fouls and Brown made 28 FT’s to Harvard’s 12! Again, there were bad calls aplenty, but I don’t see how Harvard was ‘bailed out?†Even in final minute refs called a blocked shot and possession by a Harvard a jump ball to Brown, missed a foul by Brown on Bassey’s put back, and made a game determining phantom call to give Choh the game winning FT.
Please tell me I misunderstood.
Disclaimer: Brown played great at times and win a flawed game. They deserve the win. Refs killed the game, the outcome was up for grabs and Brown grabbed it. If nothing else was, 28-32 FT shooting is awesome.
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 02-09-20 12:55 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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digamma
Masters Student
Posts: 468
Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
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02-09-20 02:30 PM - Post#299202
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Over the last four games Harvard opponents shot 100 FTs. Harvard has shot 53.
Last thing on last night, I’m not sure how it is possible to catch a ball and call time out in .2 seconds. If we are going to do that, just let the team take it out at half court to begin with.
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mobrien
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
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02-09-20 02:46 PM - Post#299205
In response to digamma
I feel bad for Baker. He was great again last night, but then got hit with that terrible call at the end.
This was a predictable letdown game though. The physical and emotional toll of the Yale game was pretty clear. Guys were standing around on offense from the beginning, and Tommy was as upset as I’ve ever seen him from about 5 minutes into the game. He kept yelling at them to pass and cut, but nobody was. He eventually started yelling at the bench too, asking them if they were hearing him.
I hope those refs never do another Ivy game. It was horrible to watch and must have been even worse to play, with no rhythm and no sense of what might get called at any time.
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 150
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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02-09-20 03:31 PM - Post#299239
In response to Naismith
At 1-0 (barely) Harvard is the only remaining Ivy team undefeated on its home court. Defending homecourt this year is now mandatory after this gruesome stretch.
Technical foul on Naismith, (realized while watching Prin-Columbia.
Princeton is 3-0 in Ivy home games.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Brown
02-10-20 07:32 PM - Post#299471
In response to digamma
Last thing on last night, I’m not sure how it is possible to catch a ball and call time out in .2 seconds. If we are going to do that, just let the team take it out at half court to begin with.
Usually the coach tells the ref his intention to call TO as soon as the ball is inbounded in the frontcourt. I imagine the player and/or coach were screaming,â€Timeout,†as the pass was being caught, in which case it’s instantaneous. Taking the ball out at halfcourt like in the NBA would remove having to successfully complete the inbounds play, which was hugely important in that situation and very difficult. Mike Martin commented on how key that play was in the postgame interview. By the way, the genius play-by-play guy didn’t know the rule and kept wondering how long it took for the ball to travel past halfcourt in the air.
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 150
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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Re: Brown
02-10-20 09:52 PM - Post#299483
In response to LyleGold
...and maybe coaches shouldn't be able to call timeouts in any clock-related sport. Makes the game about them and not the players they are teaching.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-10-20 10:28 PM - Post#299486
In response to Naismith
The NCAA rightly got rid of that several years ago, but brought it back this year in the final two minutes of regulation and during OT. No idea why they backtracked like that, but Brown may have benefited from it.
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digamma
Masters Student
Posts: 468
Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
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02-10-20 10:49 PM - Post#299487
In response to LyleGold
Just out of curiosity is the .2 prescribed somewhere for a clean catch? Like the "has to be .4" to get off a shot rule.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-10-20 11:14 PM - Post#299488
In response to digamma
I wondered the same thing. It’s hard to imagine .2 secs was some sort of judgment call. I bet it’s an automatic clock adjustment, but I don’t actually know. It’s not like resetting the clock to .5 when Baker fouled (?) Choh because the refs could use replay to determine when it supposedly occurred.
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