HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-09-20 01:21 AM - Post#299156
In response to mobrien
I know it ended up not mattering, but how do you call a jump ball on a simple blocked shot? Even in slow motion it didn’t make sense. Good thing we had roughly 4 stoppages in the last minute so the refs could figure out what they had actually called.
Yes, the refs appeared to blow the play dead believing incorrectly that there was a shot clock violation. Then they realized that there was no violation and gave Harvard what appeared to be a post-whistle put back. Unfortunately, because they had blown the play dead the possible foul by Brown on Bassey’s put back wasn’t noticed. I have no idea if it was a foul under tonight’s rules, but likely they don’t either. It would have helped had they followed the play.
Gotta give credit to coaches and players for keeping their cool.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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02-09-20 10:30 AM - Post#299170
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
The Ivy League gets more refereeing whiplash than any other league in the difference between its Friday and Saturday officiating. Friday you might have a crew of full-time refs that regularly works Big East games (as H and Y did), but on Saturday you'll have a crew of part-timers who work the occasional NEC or Patriot League game (as H and B did).
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-09-20 11:53 AM - Post#299183
In response to iogyhufi
Crazy that Amaker had to use 11 players last night. That means the 12th and 13th roster players entering the season had to step up. What other Ivy squad can go 13 deep? By the way, what's the story with Catchings?
Ivy scheduling varies from year to year, and Harvard (and Dartmouth) have played the toughest schedule thus far. Last year Harvard jumped out with 5 of 6 games at home. At this point Harvard has played 5 of 6 on the road where it has visited the 4 other tournament possible teams (sorry Cornell). Looking forward to 6 of 8 remaining games at Lavietes and 4 of 8 vs the C's.
It's certainly disappointing that our Crimson lost 3 of the 4 consecutive one point/OT games. But that happens, especially on the road. The analytics seem to have Harvard finishing 9-5, down from 10-4. Brown is now in the mix, and is finished with Yale, whereas the P's have to play Yale twice. Penn, having lost twice to Princeton and still having to play Yale 2x better stay healthy and beat Columbia today. If Harvard wins at the C's next weekend and Penn/Yale lose home games vs Yale and Brown next weekend, the P's would be reeling.
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 149
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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02-09-20 12:12 PM - Post#299188
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
At 1-0 (barely) Harvard is the only remaining Ivy team undefeated on its home court. Defending homecourt this year is now mandatory after this gruesome stretch.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-09-20 12:14 PM - Post#299190
In response to Naismith
This game reminded me of Penn v Monmouth in 2018. 4OT, 79 fouls and 101 FT’s 3 starters for both teams fouled out with more than 6 min left in regulation. I just checked, not the same officiating crew.
This game was hard to watch.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-09-20 12:19 PM - Post#299192
In response to Bruno
I don’t think you call that foul. Glad they did.
Agreed. I’ve watched that play about twenty times now, and there may have been slight contact between Baker’s chest and Choh’s right shoulder as he went up. If anything, Choh pushed off with his right arm as he was releasing the shot. No call and OT would have been the fairest result.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-09-20 12:26 PM - Post#299194
In response to PennFan10
This game reminded me of Penn v Monmouth in 2018. 4OT, 79 fouls and 101 FT’s 3 starters for both teams fouled out with more than 6 min left in regulation. I just checked, not the same officiating crew.
This game was hard to watch.
The Eddie Scott game! Sadly, one very, very skewed data point.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Brown
02-09-20 12:53 PM - Post#299196
In response to penn nation
How did the refs bail out Harvard vs Brown?
Consensus seems to be that refs were awful all game against both teams.
Harvard was called for 27 fouls and Brown made 28 FT’s to Harvard’s 12! Again, there were bad calls aplenty, but I don’t see how Harvard was ‘bailed out?†Even in final minute refs called a blocked shot and possession by a Harvard a jump ball to Brown, missed a foul by Brown on Bassey’s put back, and made a game determining phantom call to give Choh the game winning FT.
Please tell me I misunderstood.
Disclaimer: Brown played great at times and win a flawed game. They deserve the win. Refs killed the game, the outcome was up for grabs and Brown grabbed it. If nothing else was, 28-32 FT shooting is awesome.
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 02-09-20 12:55 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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digamma
Masters Student
Posts: 468
Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
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02-09-20 02:30 PM - Post#299202
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Over the last four games Harvard opponents shot 100 FTs. Harvard has shot 53.
Last thing on last night, I’m not sure how it is possible to catch a ball and call time out in .2 seconds. If we are going to do that, just let the team take it out at half court to begin with.
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mobrien
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
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02-09-20 02:46 PM - Post#299205
In response to digamma
I feel bad for Baker. He was great again last night, but then got hit with that terrible call at the end.
This was a predictable letdown game though. The physical and emotional toll of the Yale game was pretty clear. Guys were standing around on offense from the beginning, and Tommy was as upset as I’ve ever seen him from about 5 minutes into the game. He kept yelling at them to pass and cut, but nobody was. He eventually started yelling at the bench too, asking them if they were hearing him.
I hope those refs never do another Ivy game. It was horrible to watch and must have been even worse to play, with no rhythm and no sense of what might get called at any time.
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 149
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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02-09-20 03:31 PM - Post#299239
In response to Naismith
At 1-0 (barely) Harvard is the only remaining Ivy team undefeated on its home court. Defending homecourt this year is now mandatory after this gruesome stretch.
Technical foul on Naismith, (realized while watching Prin-Columbia.
Princeton is 3-0 in Ivy home games.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Brown
02-10-20 07:32 PM - Post#299471
In response to digamma
Last thing on last night, I’m not sure how it is possible to catch a ball and call time out in .2 seconds. If we are going to do that, just let the team take it out at half court to begin with.
Usually the coach tells the ref his intention to call TO as soon as the ball is inbounded in the frontcourt. I imagine the player and/or coach were screaming,â€Timeout,†as the pass was being caught, in which case it’s instantaneous. Taking the ball out at halfcourt like in the NBA would remove having to successfully complete the inbounds play, which was hugely important in that situation and very difficult. Mike Martin commented on how key that play was in the postgame interview. By the way, the genius play-by-play guy didn’t know the rule and kept wondering how long it took for the ball to travel past halfcourt in the air.
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 149
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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Re: Brown
02-10-20 09:52 PM - Post#299483
In response to LyleGold
...and maybe coaches shouldn't be able to call timeouts in any clock-related sport. Makes the game about them and not the players they are teaching.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-10-20 10:28 PM - Post#299486
In response to Naismith
The NCAA rightly got rid of that several years ago, but brought it back this year in the final two minutes of regulation and during OT. No idea why they backtracked like that, but Brown may have benefited from it.
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digamma
Masters Student
Posts: 468
Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
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02-10-20 10:49 PM - Post#299487
In response to LyleGold
Just out of curiosity is the .2 prescribed somewhere for a clean catch? Like the "has to be .4" to get off a shot rule.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-10-20 11:14 PM - Post#299488
In response to digamma
I wondered the same thing. It’s hard to imagine .2 secs was some sort of judgment call. I bet it’s an automatic clock adjustment, but I don’t actually know. It’s not like resetting the clock to .5 when Baker fouled (?) Choh because the refs could use replay to determine when it supposedly occurred.
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